Death Of Three Young Ladies Backpacking...
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Being Accused Of Hitting A Child
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A few months ago I befriended a young lady on a dating website. She had just split up with her husband and was looking for some friends who were not mutual to her husband. I saw her a couple of times before meeting her daughter who was nearly 4. We go along well, her mum was surprised she took to me so well.
The first time we went to an event together with her daughter we were spotted by a mutual friend of her husband's who promptly informed him that he had seen her with me and the child. That evening after I left he came round and created a ruckus forcing his way into the house yelling and shouting and telling his wife that she was not to take their child out with a "stranger" I was no more a stranger than his own girlfriend. Apparently the neighbour intervened and told him to go away or she would call the police. I suggested to her that she should inform the police of what had happened as clearly this would be the beginning of a trend. We were not even going out together after all I was simply a friend.
The next weekend we went to the local country park together for a picnic and when my friends daughter spoke to her father on the phone that evening told him about me coming along and it was clear she had enjoyed herself probably making him jealous as he doesn't really spend much time with her.
The next thing I know my friend tells me that her husband has reported us to social services saying that she is hitting their child and is allowing me to do so also. I was fairly confident that obviously nothing would be found against either of us although it was extremely irritating.
I was forthcoming with my contact details so that the person from social services could contact me if she wished to which she did. When she called I asked her to explain exactly what I was accused of and what the process was as it is not exactly something I go through on a day-to-day basis. She assured me that I had not even been named but that as I had "being seeing a lot of this little girl" they would like to run a check just to be safe. I just laughed and told her to get on with it as it is I am often checked for voluntary work that I do with vulnerable people. Considering I had not been named in any accusations she then went on to asked me about my relationship with the child and seemed fairly interested in the general circumstances of me knowing the girls mother.
When I spoke to the girls mother later she told me that they were very interested in me so clearly I was lied to by social services and direct accusations had been made. Yes I had probably not been named in full because he probably doesn't know my name except for my first name as obviously that is what his daughter calls me quite rightly. I would be inclined to go after this person for defamation as he knew very well that what he was saying was false just the same as many other accusations and reports he had made against his wife were also false. I resent my taxpayer money being used in this way to investigate me just to satisfy somebody's ego.
My question is where do I actually stand, social services would not tell me what had been said and all evidence rests with them. How do I go about getting out of social services what was actually said about me and is it worth trying to take this person to court? I essentially would like to make my point because this person will carry on making accusations to try and get his own way and he needs to understand that he can't do that and the system needs to have a record of the fact that he is not a reliable witness.
I don't know what social services procedures are but I feel that I have been hard done by by social services. If I am accused of something I should have every right to know what that is. If they were simply being cautious they should be interviewing every single person this little girl has ever come into contact with including her own grandparents. I was never even left alone with her!
The first time we went to an event together with her daughter we were spotted by a mutual friend of her husband's who promptly informed him that he had seen her with me and the child. That evening after I left he came round and created a ruckus forcing his way into the house yelling and shouting and telling his wife that she was not to take their child out with a "stranger" I was no more a stranger than his own girlfriend. Apparently the neighbour intervened and told him to go away or she would call the police. I suggested to her that she should inform the police of what had happened as clearly this would be the beginning of a trend. We were not even going out together after all I was simply a friend.
The next weekend we went to the local country park together for a picnic and when my friends daughter spoke to her father on the phone that evening told him about me coming along and it was clear she had enjoyed herself probably making him jealous as he doesn't really spend much time with her.
The next thing I know my friend tells me that her husband has reported us to social services saying that she is hitting their child and is allowing me to do so also. I was fairly confident that obviously nothing would be found against either of us although it was extremely irritating.
I was forthcoming with my contact details so that the person from social services could contact me if she wished to which she did. When she called I asked her to explain exactly what I was accused of and what the process was as it is not exactly something I go through on a day-to-day basis. She assured me that I had not even been named but that as I had "being seeing a lot of this little girl" they would like to run a check just to be safe. I just laughed and told her to get on with it as it is I am often checked for voluntary work that I do with vulnerable people. Considering I had not been named in any accusations she then went on to asked me about my relationship with the child and seemed fairly interested in the general circumstances of me knowing the girls mother.
When I spoke to the girls mother later she told me that they were very interested in me so clearly I was lied to by social services and direct accusations had been made. Yes I had probably not been named in full because he probably doesn't know my name except for my first name as obviously that is what his daughter calls me quite rightly. I would be inclined to go after this person for defamation as he knew very well that what he was saying was false just the same as many other accusations and reports he had made against his wife were also false. I resent my taxpayer money being used in this way to investigate me just to satisfy somebody's ego.
My question is where do I actually stand, social services would not tell me what had been said and all evidence rests with them. How do I go about getting out of social services what was actually said about me and is it worth trying to take this person to court? I essentially would like to make my point because this person will carry on making accusations to try and get his own way and he needs to understand that he can't do that and the system needs to have a record of the fact that he is not a reliable witness.
I don't know what social services procedures are but I feel that I have been hard done by by social services. If I am accused of something I should have every right to know what that is. If they were simply being cautious they should be interviewing every single person this little girl has ever come into contact with including her own grandparents. I was never even left alone with her!
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Poor old you, what a can of worms to walk into. You might not like my first point but -- it seems to me that you might be better off ceasing to have contact with your lady friend, the mother of the child. From what you've described she seems to be constantly at the centre of a maelstrom of emotions, and you've become one of the actors in her play. I appreciate that it is hard to make new relationships, but I'm sure you'll find other people to be close to, without prolonging the agony of this lady's complex family life.
Social services like anyone else will have to prove that you have hit this child. They're job is child protection, so maybe you could take a deep breath and put aside for a brief while how hurt you feel at being wrongly accused of something you didn't do. For all you know, they are indeed interviewing or considering a chat with her grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbours etc. If it transpires that they want to take legal action against you, then you'll need to 'lawyer up', but in the meantime I'd be tempted to put keep the lady at a long distance, and just see how matters unfold.
Social services like anyone else will have to prove that you have hit this child. They're job is child protection, so maybe you could take a deep breath and put aside for a brief while how hurt you feel at being wrongly accused of something you didn't do. For all you know, they are indeed interviewing or considering a chat with her grandparents, aunts, uncles, neighbours etc. If it transpires that they want to take legal action against you, then you'll need to 'lawyer up', but in the meantime I'd be tempted to put keep the lady at a long distance, and just see how matters unfold.
OK not answers to the questions I asked. As it happens the lady has a boyfriend now anyway and was clearly never interested in me.
I do beleive they were quite interested in me as she was texting me asking if i remembered when I was last with them. I know there is a risk this was all made up but it be pretty pointless and i didn't dream being contacted by social services who just wanted to "get in get what they wanted and get out".
As i said. All I want to know is what was said about me specifically. I did meet the neihgbours and reference was made to him coming round and try to force his way in.
Social services obviously found nothing wrong with the little girl. I know they have a job to do but unless people realize that social services are not there to be weaponised against a spuose who one may have a grievence with they will be dealing with a lot of fake cases. How easy is it for an ex to get back at a former partner now with whome they have a child, just call social services every time that ex partner makes a friend.
I'm not particularly hurt by the incident (and have waited until I actually have time to look into it) I always knew there was a risk of it happening.
I do beleive they were quite interested in me as she was texting me asking if i remembered when I was last with them. I know there is a risk this was all made up but it be pretty pointless and i didn't dream being contacted by social services who just wanted to "get in get what they wanted and get out".
As i said. All I want to know is what was said about me specifically. I did meet the neihgbours and reference was made to him coming round and try to force his way in.
Social services obviously found nothing wrong with the little girl. I know they have a job to do but unless people realize that social services are not there to be weaponised against a spuose who one may have a grievence with they will be dealing with a lot of fake cases. How easy is it for an ex to get back at a former partner now with whome they have a child, just call social services every time that ex partner makes a friend.
I'm not particularly hurt by the incident (and have waited until I actually have time to look into it) I always knew there was a risk of it happening.
You will not, under any circumstances, find out what was said about you.
I’m sure you can appreciate that they cannot reveal what has been said in the course of their investigations or, in particular, who said it. Furthermore Social Services do not operate on the same lines as the police. They very often take action with little or insufficient evidence that would support their suppositions in a criminal court. People who fall victim to those actions (such as parents who have had children removed from them without justification) have extreme difficulty having such injustices put right.
They do deal with a lot of false accusations but in my experience (which is not considerable, but I have some) they have little idea of determining the false from the true. They almost always adopt the line that they “cannot be too careful” without making thorough enquiries and the type of situation in which you have become involved is typical.
Move on. Forget about finding out who said what to whom about you as it will drive you nuts and life's too short. But heed my earlier warning.
I’m sure you can appreciate that they cannot reveal what has been said in the course of their investigations or, in particular, who said it. Furthermore Social Services do not operate on the same lines as the police. They very often take action with little or insufficient evidence that would support their suppositions in a criminal court. People who fall victim to those actions (such as parents who have had children removed from them without justification) have extreme difficulty having such injustices put right.
They do deal with a lot of false accusations but in my experience (which is not considerable, but I have some) they have little idea of determining the false from the true. They almost always adopt the line that they “cannot be too careful” without making thorough enquiries and the type of situation in which you have become involved is typical.
Move on. Forget about finding out who said what to whom about you as it will drive you nuts and life's too short. But heed my earlier warning.
Well if as you say I won't get anywhere then there is no point. To be honest I should not have to choose my friends based on what their ex may or may not do. So much for a fair system. The idiot got his comuppance in a way as now she is going out with one of HIS friends and I was the last person to be his problem and he has probably got just enough intelligence that he can't keep accusing every bloke she meets of hitting their child.
I am heavily involved in joint running a social club called Rotaract that exists world wide, I am 2 years over the official age range. Despite all efforts we struggle to find new members. We live in an odd society today, where you use antisocial media to socialize and only go out to get so drunk and hung over that you can't remember the night before, I fit neither category.
Good on you TC! And keep up with Rotaract. You might also if at a loose end try U3A (University of Third Age)
I agree with you about the pressure exerted by media to equate a good time with getting pie-eyed - and yet, scratch the surface, there are quite a number of younger people who don't drink and are very nice stable folk.
I also agree that many societies are struggling for younger members, and I think the fact that work pressures are at an all time high are one reason for this.
I agree with you about the pressure exerted by media to equate a good time with getting pie-eyed - and yet, scratch the surface, there are quite a number of younger people who don't drink and are very nice stable folk.
I also agree that many societies are struggling for younger members, and I think the fact that work pressures are at an all time high are one reason for this.
Well I hear plenty of people equating a good night out to not being able to remember it the next day. I grew up mostly in italy having moved there when I was 10 and came back when i was 24 so quite a different environment. Of course I have no contact with friends from school and not in a hurry to.
Rotaract has declined. Only large towns or areas where there is more of a sense of community have clubs that hold together. Unfortunately being run by rotary does not help it as I don't think rotary has come to the realization of the changes in society and is still trying to setup rotaract clubs in the old way. traditionally rotaract was aimed at middle class youngsters that needed to do their good deed to society. Today in my town rotaract is a club that attracts people of low incomes that struggle to socialize and I think it likely that all of us in my club (me included) have undiagnosed mild learning difficulties apart from one member who is diagnosed with aspergers. Our local rotary club cannot deal with reality and keep out of the way. We have had "normal" people turn up but as soon as thy find we don't do clubbing and we do do some community work and fundraising they are off pretty quick.
Rotaract has declined. Only large towns or areas where there is more of a sense of community have clubs that hold together. Unfortunately being run by rotary does not help it as I don't think rotary has come to the realization of the changes in society and is still trying to setup rotaract clubs in the old way. traditionally rotaract was aimed at middle class youngsters that needed to do their good deed to society. Today in my town rotaract is a club that attracts people of low incomes that struggle to socialize and I think it likely that all of us in my club (me included) have undiagnosed mild learning difficulties apart from one member who is diagnosed with aspergers. Our local rotary club cannot deal with reality and keep out of the way. We have had "normal" people turn up but as soon as thy find we don't do clubbing and we do do some community work and fundraising they are off pretty quick.
Well I hear plenty of people equating a good night out to not being able to remember it the next day. I grew up mostly in italy having moved there when I was 10 and came back when i was 24 so quite a different environment. Of course I have no contact with friends from school and not in a hurry to.
Rotaract has declined. Only large towns or areas where there is more of a sense of community have clubs that hold together. Unfortunately being run by rotary does not help it as I don't think rotary has come to the realization of the changes in society and is still trying to setup rotaract clubs in the old way. traditionally rotaract was aimed at middle class youngsters that needed to do their good deed to society. Today in my town rotaract is a club that attracts people of low incomes that struggle to socialize and I think it likely that all of us in my club (me included) have undiagnosed mild learning difficulties apart from one member who is diagnosed with aspergers. Our local rotary club cannot deal with reality and keep out of the way. We have had "normal" people turn up but as soon as thy find we don't do clubbing and we do do some community work and fundraising they are off pretty quick.
Rotaract has declined. Only large towns or areas where there is more of a sense of community have clubs that hold together. Unfortunately being run by rotary does not help it as I don't think rotary has come to the realization of the changes in society and is still trying to setup rotaract clubs in the old way. traditionally rotaract was aimed at middle class youngsters that needed to do their good deed to society. Today in my town rotaract is a club that attracts people of low incomes that struggle to socialize and I think it likely that all of us in my club (me included) have undiagnosed mild learning difficulties apart from one member who is diagnosed with aspergers. Our local rotary club cannot deal with reality and keep out of the way. We have had "normal" people turn up but as soon as thy find we don't do clubbing and we do do some community work and fundraising they are off pretty quick.
I know from personal experience that you will NEVER get an answer or even a reply from SS about any 'issue' . They are immune from investigation by the police as well. I tried for 3 months just to speak to the person who was investigating a case about my grandchild. Every time I actually got a reply someone told me '' sorry ***** is not available/ on leave/ out of the office/with a client/off sick or another excuse. Not once did I get to speak to her!
Thats what I thought I'd get if i bothered. I would hope that if they have all of this power they also don't leave people with records who they have good reason to think were wrongly accused like me. It seems that they screw up like in the case of baby peter so in response instead of just doing a proper job and being responsible they toughen all the rules and make new rules because everyone has to be treated like and idiot and have rules and procedures to follow else you would have to sack them all for incompetence.
// Sorry to be harsh, but steer well clear of any woman with children who is involved in any way with Social Services.//
bit of a value judgement there and no law
well I think you are all wrong and I think he [TC] has a right to see -what is written about him. That was the question wasn't it ?
so - no 1 get the social's address from the girlfriend and write saying you are anxious to answer any questions raised concerning your own behaviour
write a separate letter saying
Data access request
Please supply me with copies of documents that mention my name John John Smith. Please process this request within the statutory time limit. If I have sent this to another person beside the data controller please send it onto him
and wait ....
then in the absence of a reply - ask for a reply
go down their compaints path
and then contact the Office of the Information Commissioner
and you get something like this
https:/
Note that Thunderchild's issue is a data access request so could be a different species
but they are virtually the same
the big thing is whether the soche is above the law and my view is that they arent - be careful to bear in mind the social's concern is with the child and not with TC - and the confidentiality argiument they will undoubtedly duck behind does NOT apply to TC concerning his own documents
good luck
give em hell TC !
bit of a value judgement there and no law
well I think you are all wrong and I think he [TC] has a right to see -what is written about him. That was the question wasn't it ?
so - no 1 get the social's address from the girlfriend and write saying you are anxious to answer any questions raised concerning your own behaviour
write a separate letter saying
Data access request
Please supply me with copies of documents that mention my name John John Smith. Please process this request within the statutory time limit. If I have sent this to another person beside the data controller please send it onto him
and wait ....
then in the absence of a reply - ask for a reply
go down their compaints path
and then contact the Office of the Information Commissioner
and you get something like this
https:/
Note that Thunderchild's issue is a data access request so could be a different species
but they are virtually the same
the big thing is whether the soche is above the law and my view is that they arent - be careful to bear in mind the social's concern is with the child and not with TC - and the confidentiality argiument they will undoubtedly duck behind does NOT apply to TC concerning his own documents
good luck
give em hell TC !
I agree with the comments that ALL this is reported speech
and also it is obvious that someone has been window dressing ( making up porkies - but you dont know who and what and when - and it really could be any or all of the three )
The question is - do you have a right to answer statements made about you about which you disagree, where the statements are being used for important decisions - and I think you do
but remember you have to be only concerned about statements about you ( and perhaps not even their future use )
and also it is obvious that someone has been window dressing ( making up porkies - but you dont know who and what and when - and it really could be any or all of the three )
The question is - do you have a right to answer statements made about you about which you disagree, where the statements are being used for important decisions - and I think you do
but remember you have to be only concerned about statements about you ( and perhaps not even their future use )
Well of course they will quote confidentiality. The problem I find is they are opening themselve wide open for people to make false complaints and for people to be falsely accused. If i was in a position to sue the perpretrator and this was a known thing people would not make fake reports and waste their time and my money. As it is because the child is the only thing social services care about they seem to be able to drive a horse and carriage through peoples lives becaus they have to take even the slightest concern seriously. This is not the first false claim he has made i am told, the other was to the police, but of course our laudable institutions don't talk to each other or share information, in the name of confidentiality i assume. If they did look around them a bit they would also find out that he had been reported to the police for abbusive and agressive behaviour - and his daughter was present, perhaps he needs to report himself to social services.
I don't think he knew my full name so I will have been refered to by my first name only, if at all of course social services know my full name now but claim that the two versions of me can't be tied together and they could be giving me information about another by mistake. At the end of the day they were very interested in me so one way or the other i was indentified as "the risk"
At the end of the day I don't think they beleived him once they started investigating but of course they have to be cautious and put the child first. I suppose i should have just made it hard work for them and told them to sling their hook until they told me what I wanted to know and if they didn't like that they would have to have me arrested and questioned.
At the end of the day the guy has made a total ass of himself because I was never a "risk" to him and his wife is now going out with one of his mates..... and he is fast running out of tools.
She wasn't involved with social services before I met her. This all came about because he did not want her to have any friends or relationships despite having already found himself a giirlfriend, the guy is a control freak and has used the system for his own purpose and everyone elses expense, this is of course perfectly acceptable in the name of putting the child victim first.
I'm not even impressed with how the investigation was done, first she had to be seen by the GP, the GP found 1 pinch mark so then she had to be sent to a specialist, her mum told her it was all because she was about to start school, it would have made life easier had they just gone straight to the specialist, after all they are supposed to be putting the kid first - no expense spared......
I don't think he knew my full name so I will have been refered to by my first name only, if at all of course social services know my full name now but claim that the two versions of me can't be tied together and they could be giving me information about another by mistake. At the end of the day they were very interested in me so one way or the other i was indentified as "the risk"
At the end of the day I don't think they beleived him once they started investigating but of course they have to be cautious and put the child first. I suppose i should have just made it hard work for them and told them to sling their hook until they told me what I wanted to know and if they didn't like that they would have to have me arrested and questioned.
At the end of the day the guy has made a total ass of himself because I was never a "risk" to him and his wife is now going out with one of his mates..... and he is fast running out of tools.
She wasn't involved with social services before I met her. This all came about because he did not want her to have any friends or relationships despite having already found himself a giirlfriend, the guy is a control freak and has used the system for his own purpose and everyone elses expense, this is of course perfectly acceptable in the name of putting the child victim first.
I'm not even impressed with how the investigation was done, first she had to be seen by the GP, the GP found 1 pinch mark so then she had to be sent to a specialist, her mum told her it was all because she was about to start school, it would have made life easier had they just gone straight to the specialist, after all they are supposed to be putting the kid first - no expense spared......
Bit of a long answer there
You could only ask for documents in your name - surname only would be OK - christian name only - not I think )
and certainly not descriptions - 'red haired with an Einstein hair style' wont pass muster for release of documents EVEN if you show you are the only one fitting the description outside of London.
If you are only referred to as 'the awful new boy friend' then you have no claim at all on the grounds it may well not be you - you certainly wouldnt have a right to reply [as she may get thro her male associates like you and I have hot dinners]
Remember all this is reported speech .....
You could only ask for documents in your name - surname only would be OK - christian name only - not I think )
and certainly not descriptions - 'red haired with an Einstein hair style' wont pass muster for release of documents EVEN if you show you are the only one fitting the description outside of London.
If you are only referred to as 'the awful new boy friend' then you have no claim at all on the grounds it may well not be you - you certainly wouldnt have a right to reply [as she may get thro her male associates like you and I have hot dinners]
Remember all this is reported speech .....
This guy never met or saw me. Social service should have asked him more questions as his story would have fallen down fast whatever it was. I did hear he changed it at least once. So no he wouldnot have been able to describe me and social were just being cautious and following blind procedures and it was obviously me being refered to but it will be easy for them to say I was not named/identified. However "as I was seeing a lot of this little girl" they wanted to take the precaution of checking me out.
As already stated we were only friends, and she is now in a steady relationship with a mutial friend of her husband. Thats not going through men like having hot diners. They had only just split up I think when I met here and she was clear she was looking for new friends that were not associated with her past.
As already stated we were only friends, and she is now in a steady relationship with a mutial friend of her husband. Thats not going through men like having hot diners. They had only just split up I think when I met here and she was clear she was looking for new friends that were not associated with her past.
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