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OK, so if war crimes have been committed then it needs clearing up, but surely these would be so obvious and would not take years to find out.
Seems to me to be a big compo drive by some pond life Lawyers that will cost the tax payers a fortune. Meanwhile there will be some very nervous people wondering if that Taliban they killed will be twisted into murder and they will be banged up. And this on top of all the other problems our war heroes have to suffer.
OK, so if war crimes have been committed then it needs clearing up, but surely these would be so obvious and would not take years to find out.
Seems to me to be a big compo drive by some pond life Lawyers that will cost the tax payers a fortune. Meanwhile there will be some very nervous people wondering if that Taliban they killed will be twisted into murder and they will be banged up. And this on top of all the other problems our war heroes have to suffer.
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As long as those who serve their country are being sacrificed on the altar of P.C. then I am afraid ultimateley the good people of this country will suffer.
We will be left with an ineffective spent force which is no better than what is deserved for the left wing and governments who continually betray them.
You will not get the best out of these highly professional people if they go into action/incidents with their minds focused on what repercussions may await them when they did what they thought best and appropriate at the time.
This country could quite easily go to hell in a handcart without men and women who are trained to run toward danger whilst others( their critics) are running away.
We will be left with an ineffective spent force which is no better than what is deserved for the left wing and governments who continually betray them.
You will not get the best out of these highly professional people if they go into action/incidents with their minds focused on what repercussions may await them when they did what they thought best and appropriate at the time.
This country could quite easily go to hell in a handcart without men and women who are trained to run toward danger whilst others( their critics) are running away.
Could not have put it any better, retro.
My views on matters such as these (involving the police and the armed forces) are well known. Very easy to criticise people who make split second decisions (whilst facing death and injury) from the comfort of some agreeable barristers' chambers many years after the dust has settled. If the State wants police oficers and members of the armed forces to avoid killing people they should not be given guns because that's what guns are for.
My views on matters such as these (involving the police and the armed forces) are well known. Very easy to criticise people who make split second decisions (whilst facing death and injury) from the comfort of some agreeable barristers' chambers many years after the dust has settled. If the State wants police oficers and members of the armed forces to avoid killing people they should not be given guns because that's what guns are for.
On what grounds do you think this is just "P.C." retro?
I'm (thankfully) no expert on war, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that it brings out the extremes (by peacetime standards) in humans. It brings out extraordinary heroism, self sacrifice and even compassion. It also brings out cruelty, sadism, vainglory and callousness. I doubt the UK army isn't any exception to this and it isnot denigrating to UK forces to accept the possibility - likelihood even - that some of them have done awful things
I'm (thankfully) no expert on war, but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to suggest that it brings out the extremes (by peacetime standards) in humans. It brings out extraordinary heroism, self sacrifice and even compassion. It also brings out cruelty, sadism, vainglory and callousness. I doubt the UK army isn't any exception to this and it isnot denigrating to UK forces to accept the possibility - likelihood even - that some of them have done awful things
one of the difficulties with this matter is how a "war crime" can be defined, in terms of the enemy our armed forces and security services now face.
they don't wear uniforms.
they don't fight for patriotism but a spiritual concept.
they have no fear of death.
they follow no conventions of warfare.
in a nutshell they don't fight in a way that traditional armies have been used to. how can our forces combat this and be sure they stay within "the law", when the law itself is so poorly defined?
they don't wear uniforms.
they don't fight for patriotism but a spiritual concept.
they have no fear of death.
they follow no conventions of warfare.
in a nutshell they don't fight in a way that traditional armies have been used to. how can our forces combat this and be sure they stay within "the law", when the law itself is so poorly defined?
//Kromovaracun
On what grounds do you think this is just "P.C." retro? //
On the grounds that it is a comparitively new practise of deciding who the military police will be investigating in witch hunts before the last bullet is fired in current campaigns. To have compensation lawyers embedded in the battle zones is a disgusting slur on the integrity of the uniformed disciplined troops who,at their governments bidding,are sent to fight terrorists who hide amongst civilians and use children as suicide bombers and human shields. We have the bloody sunday witch hunt about to start.
A good friend of mine jumped out of a Beverly back in 56 on Suez in a night drop. He was a young sergeant in the Parachute Regiment I/C a mortar platoon. He laughed as he came down in his chute. He had a box of detonators in one pocket and PE in the other. (His job was to blow up misfires). As he came down he thought the mozzies buzzed a lot louder than those he left behind in Cyprus. He landed in the DZ safely and whilst unbuckling his harness stood up to relieve himself. The mozzies were bullets whistling around his ears and had been fired at him and his platoon whilst helpless in their chutes.
They set up mortar pits and drenched a cemetary with phospherous shells where the snipers were concealed.The shooting stopped but the sound of screaming was all too apparent.
When it became light they advanced under cover and shot the screaming,still smouldering, enemy and put them out of their misery.
They didn't jump with CCS or Field dressing Stations and had no quick casevac procedures to try and preserve the dying. They did what they thought was humane at the time and I wouldn't question their judgement if I was lying in agony with phospherous burning through my tissue.
Kind of smacks of a similar action taken by a R.M. Sergeant in Afghanistan who put a mortally wounded terrorist out of his misery.
It is kill or be killed and if the government decide later that they do not like the methods these young professionals use then don't send them to do the governments dirty work in the first place.
These are show trials to appease the weak in this country. If we want war criminals lets look higher up the ladder and get a greasy politician to properly answer for his actions in a court of law.
It is right that the military is held to account and act within the international rules for war. We need standards, we need morality, we need to know we're the good guys and don't allow sadistic abuse in our name. What should be in place though is a filtering system so the taxpayer isn't stung for umpteen frivolous claims.
OG
What rules of war, rules of engagement have Daesh, Al Queda, Taliban, Mudjahadeen signed up to. The Geneva Convention ?
If you are telling me that we musn't engage them at their beastly level and act like true British gentlemen then you are telling me you want our troops to go in shackled as cannon fodder.
What rules of war, rules of engagement have Daesh, Al Queda, Taliban, Mudjahadeen signed up to. The Geneva Convention ?
If you are telling me that we musn't engage them at their beastly level and act like true British gentlemen then you are telling me you want our troops to go in shackled as cannon fodder.
WW2 - shooting at a fella as he came down in a parachute was looked on as a war crime - but I am sure they do it now
Also snipers - if they were caught with telescopic sights they were shot out of hand ( my father said ) whereas now - every one has one.
At wormhout
https:/
the SS killed surrendered and disarmed prisoners - one of my fathers colleagues was an eye witness and the trial 1946 was abandoned when it was successfully pleaded that most of the perps had died at Stalingrad.
also inbolved in the massacre at Malmedy - where they were acquitted as they successfully pleaded that they had been tortured by the Allies into false confessions
and you know if you shoot someone who has surrendered and is armless and do it on viddie - you can expect to face consequences....
Baha Moussa's final words were 'why are you doing this to me ?'
the enlisted men were beating up Iraqis before interrogation to soften them up according to oral testimony - such is the way to win hearts and minds - but that is not the right way round, is it ?
Nonetheless I find 'historical' a heart-sink word - all it means is more money for the lawyers and some of the events relate to 2003 .....
Also snipers - if they were caught with telescopic sights they were shot out of hand ( my father said ) whereas now - every one has one.
At wormhout
https:/
the SS killed surrendered and disarmed prisoners - one of my fathers colleagues was an eye witness and the trial 1946 was abandoned when it was successfully pleaded that most of the perps had died at Stalingrad.
also inbolved in the massacre at Malmedy - where they were acquitted as they successfully pleaded that they had been tortured by the Allies into false confessions
and you know if you shoot someone who has surrendered and is armless and do it on viddie - you can expect to face consequences....
Baha Moussa's final words were 'why are you doing this to me ?'
the enlisted men were beating up Iraqis before interrogation to soften them up according to oral testimony - such is the way to win hearts and minds - but that is not the right way round, is it ?
Nonetheless I find 'historical' a heart-sink word - all it means is more money for the lawyers and some of the events relate to 2003 .....
yeah I have no difficulty in saying we should not meet Al Qaeda at their own level retro
so that means we dont torture prisoners or beat them
we dont chuck people off tall buildings ( unless perhaps they are dead int eh first place )
and we dont decapitate civiliam workers with kitchen knives on viddie
whaevert makes you think we should ?
so that means we dont torture prisoners or beat them
we dont chuck people off tall buildings ( unless perhaps they are dead int eh first place )
and we dont decapitate civiliam workers with kitchen knives on viddie
whaevert makes you think we should ?
An eye for the main chance and free money?
Hard luck tale to tell?
Can you produce copious tears and snot when somebody calls 'action'?
Can you shout, scream and wail 'til whitey coughs up to stop the embarrassing display?
Then call us today and register your unprovable story and just sit back till the cash rolls in.
Remember, where there's accusation there's a ambulance chaser.
Hard luck tale to tell?
Can you produce copious tears and snot when somebody calls 'action'?
Can you shout, scream and wail 'til whitey coughs up to stop the embarrassing display?
Then call us today and register your unprovable story and just sit back till the cash rolls in.
Remember, where there's accusation there's a ambulance chaser.
Hobarts Funnies. A crocodile sherman tank flame thrower. Crews faced immediate execution by the Germans and they invented the Flammenwerfer in the Ist war.
My Uncle jock (Ex RSM) Royal Artillery. Stood up to his neck for 12hours at Dunkirk in the sea whilst being straffed and bombed by Ju 87s.
When in Monte Cassino with light AA in 44 he told me every Dunkirk vet opened up on a 109 pilot who had hit the silk.
Warwickshire Regt POWs captured and placed in a barn by German captors who threw grenades in the door.
Looks like the first enemy our troops will have to flush out in modern combat zones is the compensation scum.
My Uncle jock (Ex RSM) Royal Artillery. Stood up to his neck for 12hours at Dunkirk in the sea whilst being straffed and bombed by Ju 87s.
When in Monte Cassino with light AA in 44 he told me every Dunkirk vet opened up on a 109 pilot who had hit the silk.
Warwickshire Regt POWs captured and placed in a barn by German captors who threw grenades in the door.
Looks like the first enemy our troops will have to flush out in modern combat zones is the compensation scum.
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