Listener No 4394: Against Expectatios By Duck

[AHearer]

I had to do a lot of cold solving before I could be sure which were the rogues, but once they were identified it all fell into place quite neatly. A few words to add to the vocabulary, too. Many thanks, Duck.

[starwalker]

I'm always wary of Duck (in his many guises), having been caught so often in the past, by his seeming affection for the darker parts of Chambers. Some interesting entries and some interesting wordplays. An excellent challenge. Thanks Duck.

[Flocker14]

I solved this without getting anywhere near the advice or the hint so perhaps that's a slight drawback to this one?

[Ruthrobin]

Rather like Flocker14. The hint has helped and we have solved this but the advice leaves me head-scratching. Thanks to Duck anyway.

[Ruthrobin]

Oh dear - I have understood the advice!

[Hagen]

I get a bit irritated when there are several possible missing/extra/misprinted letters in any one clue (e.g. I found three in 32 across and of course the last one I thought of was the right one). Still, it all came together in the end and as you'd expect from the Don, one can't fault the fairness of the clue construction. Duck drove me quackers but eider way I enjoyed it.

[tnap]

The wrong extra letter for 32 had me wondering about the advice/hint for quite a while, but all clear now.

I presume I have the right answer to 8, but I can't find it in the version of OED that I have access to.

[Scorpius]

I solved everything from the first part of the message but I couldn't make sense of the second part because I too had the wrong letter out of the three possible extra letters for 32a (I'd seen two possibilities, but not the right one). I don't know whether this was deliberately done to cause puzzlement, but I don't really like ambiguities of that kind, especially when the letter I first opted for was the most natural to end the other extra letters in the across clues. I share Hagen's irritation on that score, though I enjoyed solving the puzzle.
Like tnap, I couldn't find 8 in the online OED, but I suppose that's not the full version. It's easily confirmed elsewhere anyway.

[Scorpius]

Just to add to my post above, the 'rogue' clues are very clever.

[icynorth]

Most enjoyable - thanks, Duck!

One letter to go - I hope all becomes clear when I finally parse it. Nice instruction, but like others I spotted the theme long before the message.

[s_pugh]

Well I'm over the line eventually with a full grid though I still can't fathom two of the six originals not that it really matters but just that it niggles. Sorry but I hated this one, very unsatisfying after such a good run too.

[turast]

Can anyone advise me as to how I might find The Listener on the revamped Times website? I am a subscriber, but my sole reason for subscribing is to have access to the printable version on line. On the old website there was a section for specialist puzzles and I could find it in there, but even typing "The Litener" into the search tool does not work. I'm probably missing something obvious... but

[turast]

Sorry, that should read "The Listener".

[Ruthrobin]

Turast, my sole reason for subscribing is the same. On the Times website do you not have The Crossword Club appearing in a list on a dark background at the bottom of the page? When I click on that, I get the log-in page for the crosswords (which I have saved as a favourite) and have to type my name and password at the top right, at which point, all the crosswords appear - the Listener on Friday at 16.00 with the archive of old Listeners too.

[Scorpius]

Turast, I'm puzzled by your post. The Times Crossword Club home page looks the same to me as it has for several years now, with 'specialist' being the fifth menu item in a line along the top under 'Crossword Club'. Clicking on that takes you to the specialist page with the Listener listed far left.

[perseverer]

I think turast has been accessing the Listener via the newspaper web site, rather than from crosswordclub.co.uk

[Philoctetes]

A splendid weekend!. Back from a few days away, so had to start with 4393, which I thought was great fun. Then I hit the wall on this one, and had to sleep on it, with only three answers pencilled in. This morning saw a fresh rush of inspiration, and the penny dropped about the rogues at the end. Then I opened the paper to check answers, and found my own name nestling in the best of places. Hoorah!

[olichant]

I found this tough, but really enjoyable, with some tricky - but, of course, absolutely fair - clues. Thanks, Duck. A very nice puzzle.

I fell into the same 32a trap, if it was intended as such! But all fell into place neatly.

[Keepatit]

I felt this had a structural weakness, as alluded to earlier. If it's possible to complete the puzzle without solving all the "rogue" clues properly, that is unsatisfactory. Surely a better finish would have been to require that the extra letters in those clues should be arranged to make a relevant thematic word to be written beneath the grid?

[olichant]

Sorry to double-post, but I'm just going through my answers again in a fresh grid - and some of these clues really are brilliant. Extra thanks to Duck. I think that sometimes in the white heat of trying to finish off a Listener, I'm guilty of not taking the time to really enjoy the clues for what they are, and this was a great set!

[Scorpius]

Sorry to disagree, keepatit, but I think your suggestion undermines the whole point of the puzzle, would probably be rejected by the editors, and might get a lot of complaints from solvers. You have ignored the first sentence of the preamble. If solvers have filled the grid and have understood the rationale for each of the six thematic entries they have solved the "rogue"clues. There is nothing else to solve. You are asking for the "rogue" clues to be treated both as "rogues' and as "non-rogues". If solvers were also expected to show that they had solved the "rogue" clues as "non-rogues" in effect they would be expected to arrive at six answers each of which is 100% unchecked. Hardly fair.