Listener No 4422: Buried Treasure By Poat

[AHearer]

Sod's law dictated that the last couple of clues that resisted my attack included clashes, so I had to resort to reverse logic from a guess at the instruction to nail those. It took me a while to get into Poat's mind in some of the clues, but overall a very pleasant experience. Many thanks, Poat.

[s_pugh]

PS I am not an uncle, Poat, but I am jolly Angry. Sorry AngryUncle, liked your post so much I couldn't resist!

[olichant]

I'm still sanguine - I just feel I've missed something, not least given the deviousness of what has emerged so far. Still in awe of some very good clues (apart admittedly from one wordplay which practically made me splutter into my cornflakes this morning...)

[jockie]

I wonder if the preamble highlighting is correct - after all, it seems to break the rules of fair play. In the actual event the goal was in a container which had a lid. When you do to the lid what you normally do with a lid ... there it is. Is this less cheaty than highlighting the preamble? So scissors needed maybe.

[Hagen]

Seems other Internet forums have come to the same conclusion as we have so I guess that's got to be it for the final stage. I understand the resentment and share it to a degree, but is there anything in the Listener rulebook that actually forbids this type of thing?

It was indeed ironic that I got the last move after a shed load of booze as for many years, I have found that my solving ability (such as it is) decreases in direct proportion to the amount of booze consumed. A few years ago someone bigged me up as a good crossword solver after a very liquid lunch, and I was presented with the Evening Standard puzzle to prove the point. I got four answers in 30 minutes and two of them turned out to be wrong...

[petefoxes]

Solving while drunk is not easy but a hangover brings remarkable clarity.

I think I follow everyone else's thinking here, but I really don't want that to be the solution, so am still staring.

[Andcharall]

Hagen: I sympathise with your difficulty with the Standard Crossword, which is usually far beyond any logic...

[IainGrace]

Returned to this, having made much progress with clues, and we can complete the puzzle as suggested in most posts, having worked out everything else. As a matter of interest, do AHearer/Ruthrobin believe the solution to be the one that most solvers here disdain? As noted in one comment, neither commented adversely on the final step.

[olichant]

A propos of nothing, but if you search for the theme on Wikipedia, there is a quote in the second section of the article which could not better exemplify what I suspect many of us are going through.

[Gaitkrasher]

Each week after tackling the Listener I like to see what you've all said about it. For the first time I'm tempted to join in. I thought this was a magnificent puzzle, and I wonder if some solvers, jumping straight to the identity of the goal, have neglected to dig deeply enough to uncover all that is buried here. Well done Poat, ignore the grumbles.

[Ruthrobin]

Ruthrobin here, since you asked. I originally 'leapt' to the probably wrong conclusion that 'four consecutive letters in a straight line' doesn't necessarily mean four contiguous letters. I did later revise that choice. My entry has already been posted. We have been asked for some strange entries in the past - a grid folded into an origami wren - grids with holes cut in them - grids converted to stars - glued together in various ways etc. There was so much in this Poat compilation that I feel very sad for Poat that the end move is causing such distress. Sad, too, that we, on this board, who usually avoid giving direct hints, are troubled enough to be giving them and discussing it. Not quite as blatantly as on the other board though (yes, I broke my own rule, went there and am even smiling at what is being suggested). I fear this might be the new KOHb event. JEG, of course, solves with the rest of us (and appears, honestly, in his own statistics). He doesn't see the solution until he has completed his entry (he doesn't personally select the winners either - he walks down the road to his brother's house with a bag of all the correct entries). He would have no say at all and no veto about what has to be submitted (at least, that is what I have understood to be the case). Sorry to go on at length - will get my coat.

[AngryUncle]

I thought I'd have a peek at what was on the Other Side tonight. Gosh, that was interesting; so much ingenuity. Heaven help us if any of them becomes a Listener setter. Perhaps there are already some budding Poats among them.

Anyway, AFAICS, it's only AHearer, Gaitkrasher (a new name for an erstwhile contributor here?) and RuthRobin who have either solved the endgame or chosen not to admit that they haven't. This is a very poor success rate among those of us who congregate in this virtual bar-room. It makes me sad too, not for Poat but for the shade of Ximenes, who held that a good setter should always arrange the contest in such a way that the solver had a good chance of coming out on top.

Still, in less than three weeks' time - DV - we shall know what it was we were supposed to have guessed.

[darkenergy]

Amazed by the misplaced vitriol aimed at Poat on this and the ‘other‘ site.
This is a challenging Listener, and superbly compiled.The final end-game does yield to persistence and logic, and is completely valid, fair and unequivocal. As the saying goes:'if you can't stand the heat....' Many thanks Port!

[emcee]

My first chance to pass comment...

I thought the clues were clever and of the type where you wanted to "stick at it" rather than cast the printed pages aside.

The trail was fine until the last step. There we have much contention and I feel the "four consecutive letters" in the preamble can have more than one meaning, and is the cause of much confusion.

I have taken it to mean a way of pinpointing the actual search area where more than one possibility arises. The treasure is then contained within that search area.

I would hope that the "thinking outside the box" ploy is not the correct solution as it isn't in the spirit of Listener puzzles to physically do such.

I think we could probably justify our own solutions in such a way that we *shouldn't* be marked wrong. I'm afraid many of us *will* be marked wrong as we have seen it differently from the setter.

[fyellin]

Others groans and complaints have given me hope that they have come to the same conclusion that I have.

[IainGrace]

All comments above helpful. Satisfied now that there is a resolution which is not the one that has been the subject of controversy.

[AHearer]

Not sure what to say without transgressing this forum's bounds. Poat is a very ingenious setter: I didn't complain about this puzzle in my original post, and I still don't want to complain.

[Scorpius]

I think I know what's required, but I'm not as convinced as dark energy that the the endgame is entirely without ambiguity.

[icynorth]

I've worked through this one slowly and steadily throughout the week, and when I got to the endgame, it seemed so appropriate. I loved this puzzle - thanks Poat!

[olichant]

You've beaten me, I think, Poat - it's been sitting on my desk for the best part of a week in the hope that inspiration would strike, but no such luck. Despite the fact that I found the endgame impossible, I did really enjoy the gridfill, so that's treasure enough for me.

Hope everyone here has a nice weekend.

[moffat]

No need to think outside the box.