Listener 4489 Ocean-Going Vessel

[lyrabelacqua]

Am I truly first? Loved this one, and have just finally nailed my last replacement. Quick, but very clever.

[Hagen]

To answer Emcee, no I didn't check all the intermediate stages so I don't know if some of them were real words or not. I got nowhere following the intended path, but a good idea of what the final entry for 13 across would be, along with a few guesses at the final versions of some of the entries, led to changed letters plus the letters for the object agreeing with the triplets in each clue. that was enough for me!

I do agree with Sunny Dave that a puzzle where it takes me 20 minutes to solve the clues and several hours to work out the endgame is not the balance that I would consider ideal. Some people clearly had far less trouble with the letter changes than I did, and therefore will have a very different opinion. If there's one thing that's definitely true about these puzzles, it's that you can't please everybody all of the time!

[olichant]

Emcee, I had a few real words en route. I think there's a defensible way of construing the preamble to permit that - albeit not the most natural one. But (famous last words) I'm pretty sure that the solution I have is unique.

[Scorpius]

Emcee, I’m pleased that you have spelled out the issue that I was hinting at in my message. The wording of the preamble very strongly implies that there is a chain of alterations in which, at each stage, a non-word must be altered to become a real word. The use of the word, ‘triggers’ and the phrase, “to make it a real word” (rather than ‘resulting in another word’) make it hard to read it any other way, and the phrase, ‘and so on’ implies a continuing pattern. At the very least, the meaning that appears to be the intended one is not a natural reading. Despite upsetter’s use of ‘bleating’ I don’t think it’s an unfair criticism at all. I spent a long time exploring other routes, thinking that Pointer may have devised a very cunning route that does involve altering non-words at each stage, but I think a close examination of the last two or three altered entries reveals that it’s not possible. However, I still harbour doubts. Given the flexibility of an asymmetric grid and split entries I’m surprised that an experienced and skilled setter didn’t achieve the ideal consistent pattern. He shouldn’t be criticised for not achieving that ideal if it wasn’t possible, but the preamble should not appear to suggest he has.

On another matter I’m puzzled by Cruncher‘s reference to an obscure final entry for 9a. Mine is a common word. Either my solution is wrong or there would be appear to be an alternative solution.

[emcee]

I couldn't agree more with what Scorpius says in the first paragraph. I too spent a good deal of time analysing a problem which, according to the reading of the preamble, was possible. I don't believe it is and am a tad frustrated that my time has been unnecessarily wasted.

We do require precision in the preamble and I feel the editor(s) should have picked up on this.

[Philoctetes]

On a lighter note, I had the original grid, copied the non-changeable letters to a fair copy and got about two-thirds through the chain when a muddy cat (Augusta) has obliterated both grids and made them unreadable. The trials of Listenerites are manifold.

[Cruncher]

Hi Scorpius. Sorry for unnecessary confusion. 9ac is fine but the crossing down entry that leads to one of the alterations is not listed on Quinaplus although it appears in Chambers