listener 3973: Collusion by Magpie

[midazolam]

Here is this weeks listener the preamble sounds initially complicated

good luck

[cluelessJoe]

"Three people are working together to solve this puzzle ....."

Hmmmm, wonder if the statistician is aware of the collusion? Reckon this might get a few people going!

Yes Midazolam, intriguing preamble - hope a cracked clue or two will offer some kind of pointer as to what exactly is required.

Good luck all

[bobbycollins]

Two hours in and two clues solved - oh dear. Presumably a backlash from the last two v easy puzzles

[failedagain]

across: lanarkshire, abase, aredes, crumb, sana, tetanal, uranic, elsie, verser, adana, quizmonster, uredo, anselm, eosin, kaamas, enseams, bani, ready, fogram, iaido, isoelectric
down: lassu, naan, asians, recti, kaye, herald, idun, remain, pareu, blear, tean, aries, croak, satem, queer, mona, eland, roneos, diedre, sabbat, asdic, siroc, sago, meme, amir

[midazolam]

i agree bobbycollins, i think the editors felt they must publish a stinker after the recent run of listeners weve had

failedagain - have you a fondness for the quizmonster?

[Cruncher]

Think this is the trickiest Listener for some months. Took me ages to figure out the final "collusion" and even longer to unravel the wordplay for some of the answers I'd already sussed! Still not quite sure about the wordplay for 38D.

Good luck!

[magwitch]

Cruncher - I think it's "too bad" minus ob (died).

[bobbycollins]

Have the wordplay and grid entry for 38d but unsure of the definition. Clueless about the wordplay for 9a, but certain of the entry.

[magwitch]

bobbycollins - 38d : a toad is a contemptible person. You should be able to find another word meaning this after correcting the misprint.

9a : zero is a cipher; read can mean decipher

[spiderFreak]

I'm getting an E/S ambiguity at the end of 26d. Anyone else find that or am I missing something somewhere?

[Listenerite]

This is a very difficult puzzle that is really going to sort the men from the boys when it comes to this year's Listener statistics.

If I ask really nicely, could you possibly stop discussing this puzzle and giving answers and wordplay explanations in public? I don't normally get too bothered by that happening on this forum, but for a puzzle that is likely to play a large part in determining whether many people are all-correct or not for the current year, then any such discussions may skew the statistics.

I hope this posting is taken in the nature it is intended; I am trying to be polite, explain my rationale, and hopefully won't upset anybody enough for the response to this posting to be rants about us Listener obsessives and the statistics!

Thanks,

Listenerite

[Quizmonkey]

Hear hear, Listnerite - but expect a storm of invective from those individuals who just don't get it and refuse to listen to rational and reasoned arguments.

[MadSolver]

What you say makes sense, listenerite. I guess I won't ask either of my questions. I always enjoy it more if I can finish on my own anyway.

[jabone]

So why are we all looking at this thread?

[bobbycollins]

So why are we all looking at this thread...

I for one didn't need to

After staring at 24a for eons hoping for inspiration as to the final entry I gave up the ghost and just asked me mate.

Shan't be going to the dinner.

[Cruncher]

Apologies if I set the ball rolling. I wasn't actually asking for a response - let alone for the answer to be made explicit - when I posted my musing about 38d. For better or worse I'd submitted my entry by then anyway.
I'm new to this site (though not to the Listener) and came across a thread elsewhere on this site in response to one solver who was bragging that he/she'd managed an all-correct run through information exchanged on this site. A simple suggestion would seem to be to ask solvers to withhold advice until the submission date has passed. That way the statistics, which I think are part of the Listener's charm, remain unsullied, but would still leave a week before the solution is posted when successful solvers can enjoy teasing their colleagues with hints, tips (and possibly the occasional red herring...)
Whatever the response to that it amuses me that this crossword, with its theme of collusion, should be prompting this debate.
Good for you bobbycollins!

[cluelessJoe]

"So why are we all looking at this thread" ...

Well Jabone, I come here initially to pick up an early (Friday night) link to the new puzzle. I then check back in after completing the puzzle to see how others have fared - and whether as in the case of this weeks offering they found it as mighty challenging as I did.

Well done Cruncher and Bobbycollins (saw you play many a time for Leeds when I was a lad!). I staggered over the line this week but am not totally comfortable with my submission - got all the clues, and I think I arrived at the correct final entry, but by intuition - still can't fathom how my answer relates to the misprint corrections. My guess is in the post, and I look forward in finding out why it was correct in a couple of weeks time. The last time I ended up wallowing over a final link and sticking with the educated guess, I won the bottle of champagne!

As for Listenerite's post, I'm entirely in accord with your sentiments and thanks for your thoughts. I have occasionally given an odd hint - hopefully very subtle - on here, but don't think anyone should stray in the direction of excessive full answer posting or explanation of wordplay in advance of official posting of the solution. I'm still an advocate of gentle coaching, but appreciate how easy it might be to overstep that mark and thereby begin to undermine the official stats.

The perennial debate apart, in conclusion a most enjoyable Listener and bring on 3974

[bobbycollins]

....and my boots were only a size 3, cluelessJoe. I think that I was better at Everton, though.

Congrats on the success, wish I could have submitted something, but fell at the very last step. I suppose with hindsight that it is guessable. When the solution is revealed I think that there will be many deep intakes of breath. I was stunned by its beauty.

[cluelessJoe]

... beauty indeed - I've just worked it out, couldn't let it be.

Pleased my submission was correct, but wish I'd seen the route beforehand.

Great puzzle Mr. Magpie

[mad max]

I gave up on this one yesterday, just couldn't get into it , far too difficult for me at present, ( unlike the last two easy grids) look forward to seeing solution.
mad max