Listener 3990

[cruciverbali]

This week's puzzle is I Know My Place by Syd Lexis

[u10]

YY = too wise. Hope that gives you a start. Look carefully at those letters in the diagonals. One of the unchecked cells contains a number!

[jamesah]

After the above comments I found the answer by googling but where does it come from? Is it something that solvers are supposed to be familiar with? An enjoyable puzzle anyway!

[Cruncher]

Thank you u10. Usual thing - as soon as I posted the query the balls dropped into place. I too googled the answer. Wouldn't have known it otherwise. I know my place...

[cluelessJoe]

steady u10 ( .. reckon you score barely 1 out of u10 for subtlety)
I think that recent Listener threads here have generally tended to gravitate back towards the gentle hint as opposed to the QM total give-aways of a few weeks ago.
However, I think that here you erred significantly on the side of over-generosity (i.e. you might as well have spelled the whole thing out).
I don't want to re-open the old what's fair debate (yes I know this is the Answerbank, and no it does not particularly upset me anyway) but the Listener IS a special case in a lot of people's eyes, so let's not try openly to offend those who do still hold the institution, its values and its statistics so dear.
Considered moderation please!

[Cruncher]

If it eases your concerns CluelessJoe, I'd already figured that bit out before I posted my query. I was still struggling what part the omitted letters played. So I was being especially dumb!

But I agree there is a skill in giving hints that suggest the direction rather than describe the destination. Of recent threads I'd mention the Lip Service/Sabre thread. Having trawled through the ODQ on lip/lips to find the answer it was a little galling to find it made so explicit on this site.

And maybe if you hadn't come across the answer in your mother's autograph book you would have been grateful for u10's hint yourself?

[bobbycollins]

I think that I�m with cluelessJoe on this one. Gentle hints, of which I was a beneficiary this week, are OK for me, but I don�t think that we should take spades to proverbial souffl�s whilst offering those hints.

On another subject, may I say how welcome it is that the discussions on this forum are conducted in such a dignified, civilised manner?

[cluelessJoe]

Agreed bobbycollins, we have seen some real acrimony on this site in the past, and I think that the recent civilised exchanges are totally refreshing. Further, I must commend you for your own principles (forgive me if I'm wrong on this but I think it's you) as I believe you have made it quite clear that if you receive significant help in solving a puzzle, you just don't submit it (Crosswit77 please note!).

And Cruncher, I concur on your Lip Service comments ... help a measure too explicit again (well, more than a good measure!).
As for this week's, I would not have been happy to receive such explicit help - I reckon there's almost always a route to the answer/theme available to the great majority of solvers. This time round, yes my first encounter was that autograph book entry, but I have seen it quite a few times since. I half recall it being in a childrens' Readers' Digest compendium vintage mid 60's - where it stood alongside

"if the Bmt put : if the B. putting :"

(I didn't crack that one - punctuation is highly significant - let me know if you do as badly as I did & I'll expand)

[cruciverbali]

It's a real shame that the weather is so bad we even have to consider the grate at the moment ! At least the golfer's will be earning their money this week, good walk spoiled and all that !

[cluelessJoe]

.. though I see that Sandy Lyle only managed to spoil half a walk.

[cruciverbali]

Was he feeling below par, or just a bit under the weather ?

[cruciverbali]

Postscript (just to be different from HM)

As already mentioned alsewhere, this rebus was explicitly mentioned on page 5 of the following week's Books section (July 19), during an article about text-messaging skills. I don't possess the latter myself, but am certainly old enough to remember YYUR ........... from the playground. (I thought 'time immemorial' was a bit unfair !)

C