Listener 4007

[cruciverbali]

This week's challenge isSongspiel by Dysart.

However, it looks like the Halloween Gremlins might have struck again, so watch this space !

[Deviant]

Funny how people find different clues difficult. I think I'm nearly there. I still have the nominally difficult clashes to resolve and 7D is still baffling me. Didn't find 39D at all bad once I'd decided on the two across answers.

[Cruncher]

Deviant - 7dn is one of the '17'. Given that the grid entries are real words there aren't that many options for the unchecked letters and from there it is a modest amount of work to get back to the original answer

[JackDeCrow]

Very disappointed that no-one has made any clever hint-type observations about 39d yet given what a popular topic it is! No problem with any other clues or tricks (eventually - not claiming this was a weekend thing!) but, with what I have, there are only two words 39d be, and I can just about tie one of those to what might be the wordplay, but none of the possibilities for the definition seem at all promising! More trawling required.

[jamesah]

All done but uncertain about 7dn and 39dn in common with other solvers. I think that 7dn is one of the quartet, I've got 4 letters and the other two are presumably the same but the only words which I can find don't match the wordplay and only one seems vaguely connected with the definition unless my reasoning is entirely wrong which is quite possible. If I've counted right then 39dn is one of the 13, there are plenty of possible answers but none seem to match the clue which is a double definition??

[JackDeCrow]

Jamesah, if you have correctly figured out what's going on with the quartet (which presumably you have!), then you'll realise that your key assumption about 7dn doesn't need to be the case ! And, assuming 1ac and 1dn are two separate members of the 17, I don't think 39dn is.

[JackDeCrow]

But then, I can come up with a good answer to 39d if it is one. And there was one other clue which could have been in or out, so I guess that will have to be my solution. It's good to talk !

[midazolam]

jackdecrow - i think you are wrong on both accounts

7 down is one of the "4" and 39 down is one of the "13"

[Rapparee]

39d is not a double definition. The first two words provide the wordplay while the third word is the definition and therefore is carrying a misprint.

[jamesah]

Thanks Rapparee. I'll go away and have a think about that!

[cluelessJoe]

take your time guys, no rush - "the line it is drawn, the curse it is cast, the slow one now will later be fast .... and the first one now will later be last"
Oops, sorry, getting caried away there

[failedagain]

Careful, cluelessJoe: people will be calling you a Listenerite, the most hated thing to be on this forum.

Midazolam: Our derisive relationship began with your response to my first post, in which you said people like me gave you a headache, though you didn't know me. If you can't take derision, don't dish it.

[cluelessJoe]

I wasn't being 'Listenerite' there failedagain, in fact I was quoting a couple of lines from a song (dare I say THE song?).
I think if you had realised that you might have accused me of being quite the opposite!

[JackDeCrow]

Midazolam - yes, agree with you about 7d. That wasn't the assumption of Jamesah's I was referring to (it was the one about the two unchecked letters needing to be the same - which certainly wouldn't help !)
As for 39d, eventually discovered that I had completely randomly circled one of the other clues as being part of the 13, which rather careless mistake cost me two days of considerable frustration!

[jamesah]

Got 39dn at last, I've seen the light! I'm obviously being dumb here but if the unchecked letters in 7dn are different, how do you know where to put them as there can only be one possible answer.

[JackDeCrow]

I'd been trying to resist saying that ! 7dn comes down to the fact that both the original answer and the entry have to be real words. There's only one combination that works.

[Deviant]

It's good to know I'm not the only one struggling with 7D.

I had already come to the conclusion that it must be one of the 4 - even I can count to 4, but I just can't find anything that fits the theme.

Either I'm being blind or stupid or I have 6A as I don't get the entire derivation of it but I still can't see a suitable candidate in TEA even if I assume that it is wrong and that seems unlikely :( Is this a particularly unusual manifestation of the theme?

[PuzledBadger]

Hi Deviant, this my first ever posting to this forum. 7d is a foreign word that is in Chambers. However, I'm struggling with 24d (can't get anything to fit) 19a (just can't figure out the wordplay) and 27d (cos my amended answer doesn't leave a real word :-( .) I guess this one is going to slip into the "unfinished" pile.

[Deviant]

Thanks Badger - and welcome! Doh! I think I ignored that word several times.

By my reckoning, you've got one of each type in there: one of the 4, one of the 13 and one of the rest. It's the definition in 19a that's the tricky bit, not the wordplay!

[Clamzy]

There's been no mention of this so far in this thread, but I have four answers for which I have had to enter anagrams. As an example the clue to 26d gave a slang word for prison but I can only fit in an anagram of this which is a French town I believe. Is this thematic - I know little about this guy and his music.

[jamesah]

Never having heard of the grid entry to 24dn I hadn't appreciated that the members of the 4 were all real words. I suppose there's only one grid entry for 7dn, I'll have to trawl through Chambers to find the foreign word which is connected to the theme. Still baffled by the wordplay! Thanks to JackDeCrow for his help.