Listener Crossword 4016: Motion by Samuel

[midazolam]

Here is this weeks Listener link.

After last years enjoyable "gravitation" puzzle we are on the move again

[jamesah]

A very enjoyable puzzle and quite easy once I had realised the theme. I'm annoyingly stuck on 12ac for some reason, must be a mental block. Any hints welcome (or just the unchecked letters would do).

[castro221]

Jamesah, you have my sympathy, as this was the last clue I solved. When I finally tumbled to it, I found it a lovely clue, which is why I don't want to spoil your fun by spelling it out; the definition part is not at all obvious, and part of the subsidiary indication / wordplay (let's not go there) is a very uncommon word. If you study the full Chambers entries for every word in the clue you will get there (actually this is never a bad plan!). I hope this is help enough.

[growf]

I've finished the puzzle, delightful conceit and all, with the solitary exception of 2dn. Just the unchecked light remains - an E would give me something matching the definition whilst an L would give me something matching the wordplay. Any suggestions on how to resolve this?

[Philoctetes]

Growf,
One of your options does have a Chambers entry to show how it fits one of the words in the clue.

[jamesah]

Thanks Castro221, I'll follow your advice and see where it leads me.

[Cruncher]

Did anyone else have qualms about the wordplay for 23dn? The answer is obvious enough but the wordplay for the first part of the answer doesn't quite tie up. Have a similar niggle about 39ac where again the wordplay seems loose and Google gives a variant but I think erroneous spelling which would fit the wordplay better. And suspect that there will be some earnest discussion about the definition for 12ac. I was one of the solvers last year who argued about the ambiguities in Samuel's last puzzle. Can see that I may have to roll my sleeves up again!

[perseverer]

Cruncher, if you follow Castro's suggestion a few posts back, the definition part of 12 ac seems fine, but word play I find less convincing to lead to the middle part of the clue answer. 23d OK for me. In 39ac, either one does double duty or you use a variant of the in.

[midazolam]

Are you picking on Samuel given last year Cruncher ...looking up "fine gentleman" in chambers will confirm the definition without any ambiguities

I dont see any justification for a move in 19 across. As the whole entry read out "resolves the issue" of the other 10. I can't see a problem with 5 down either - because that is what is done (enter the 5 down) to give the 10

[castro221]

For what it's worth (I have only been doing these puzzles regularly for a year) I thought 39 made sense (just) with this bracketing: [One consumed by Gore] [capsized boat in] [Mountie's home?]. In other words, I think I agree with perseverer. I think 12 and 23 just about worked; on reflection I liked the definition of 12 so much that I was not critical enough about the wordplay, and 23 is I think acceptable but not a great clue by any means. I await with interest what will eventually be written in Another Place.

[cluelessJoe]

Midazolam - I think the problem we may be having (well me anyway) is that there's no logic to the statement in 19 across because the other ten are split evenly - so why should 19 come down in favour of one of those two possibilities? (Unless there's a BBC audience phone vote involved somewhere in background, in which case anything goes)

[Philoctetes]

I'm glad someone else thought that. I came to the conclusion that, because of how it is entered, 12 across has a double force! Or am I being too devious?

[Clamzy]

I'm with you cluelessjoe. For 19ac to affect the outcome the negative within it is misplaced, although it is within the left half of the grid, and I suppose acceptable.
Regarding 5 dn midazolam's version with the addition of the definite article makes more sense than the preamble.

[Mysterons]

The wording of the preamble seems OK, but it does have to be interpreted in a very specific way. Whereas entering the place at 5 down does not resolve the entry at 19 Across (ie the result of the motion), entering the answer at 3 Down does. However the fifth letter of 3 Down had to be N rather than A, because, as already mentioned, it lies 'West of Greenwich' (sorry to be so cryptic, but you know what I mean !)