May have been quicker on this occassion Big Dave, yet, Lie in King is far superior to Bea in knowledge of both GK + cryptics ;-) Am quite new to cryptics- still much to learn for sure yet enjoy them. Much to learn with GK, too!! Yet, for 35 years + a living with a chronic neurological condition am pretty good overall + love challenges. Lie in King is not only clever yet kind- a true genius, too :-) !! Take care everyone + night night, Aunty Bea ;-)