Listener Crossword 4031 - Much Ado About Nothing by Shackleton

[Walterloo]

Hope nobody minds me starting this week's thread. Lengthy preambles aside I've made ok progress with this so far but still a lot to do. Some good clueing and the whole thing looks extremely interesting. Get your paintboxes ready. Good luck everybody.

[emcee]

robinruth,

I too have an old ODQ and had to 'google' to find the relevant quotation. It only confirms what you probably already know.

[IntoTheBlue]

Just finished this one. I found this very difficult and it took a while for the penny to drop for the names of the 'genuine paintings' which were backed up by the quote.
(It didn't help that I had 'sot' as the misprint for 'son' in one of the down clues.)

Very clever use of the charade and a nice touch with the ambiguity and use of the abbreviation at the end.

Thanks very much Shackleton. (Don't think much of the 'painting' though...)

IntoTheBlue

[cluelessJoe]

I'm still not totally comfortable with my placement of the ambiguities .. I think I can see what the alternative interpretation is meant to represent but don't find that piece wholly convincing. Otherwise a very nice puzzle - and Robinruth, you don't really need the ODQ quote - I suspect many people got by without, and I never bothered to search online when I found it was not in my copy. As emcee says, you probably already know what I suspect the quote reveals.

[Mysterons]

Thanks for kicking this one off Walterloo - the interpretation you are seeking is geographic rather than artistic, and allows precise placement in the grid of the 5th across clue.

Am I correct in thinking that the two regions mentioned in this puzzle are the only ones to share the shape they do ?

[Walterloo]

Thanks Clamzy and emcee for your hints recently. Unfortunately I still haven't got it. I don't think I've ever been so close and yet so far on one of these crosswords. I blame my brain for having to be in fourteen different places today. Good luck to those who are still battling and well done to the finishers.

[Walterloo]

I've, um, got it now (embarrassed cough). I was looking too hard in the wrong direction with nothing but art on the brain. I was like the bloke looking for his glasses only to find them on top of his head. And thankyou Mysterons for your post. I will never bother any of you again . . . . . this week.

[Speravi]

I agree with AHearer: the multiple levels of concealment made for a very enjoyable experience, with, as turnerjmw observed, plenty of penny-dropping moments. For me, it was very difficult, the hardest this year after Loda's "In Clue Order, On and On". Many thanks to Shackleton for much enjoyment.

[midazolam]

A really satisfying listener this week with a fair amount of lateral thinking. I was flying back from France today with this gnawing at me. I had everything done (even the ambiguity) but I could not understand why I had painted my picture with 77 cells the way I did until the charade dawned on me. As several have said - it is the missing link.

I see what cluelessjoe is saying (and why Walterloo was stuck). i presume that with resolving the ambiguity the missing material is visibly shown in the grid (aka the abbreviation).

[robinruth]

Thank you, emcee, clueless Joe, mysterons. Yes, Google provided a sufficiently 'critical' comment of the artist and I have finally understood that last ambiguity about the 'geographical' placing of the fifth clue in the grid -and the two regions that 'share a shape'.
Completed with enormous satisfaction!

[jamesah]

Almost at the end, I thought I understood the ambiguity but I don't understand the phrase 'relative information for the painting'. Will it become clear if I colour in 76 of the letters (if I can find some coloured pencils) and then try the two alternative final cells? If it will then it will be worth searching for the pencils!

[Mysterons]

No, the colouring is purely abstract, and the 'relativity' referred to is the relationship between the two (similarly shaped) regions (see first 3 words of message given by Down misprints).

[bobbycollins]

I finished a very difficult grid under my own steam, but was bemused by the next steps.

Luckily my Very Clever Friend (who contributes here) tore his hair out and eventually saw what was happening, so hopefully he'll retain his all correct for the year.

What a fiendish end-game and I bow to my mate and the rest of you who managed this one. A hugely ingenious offering from Shackleton. Pity I am too thick for this level of difficulty.

[JackDeCrow]

A masterpiece indeed. Struggled through to a completed grid last night, but had my most enjoyable PDM of the year so far on the train this morning about both the charade and the alternative interpretation. Can't wait to get home to the coloured pens, even though no expectation of understanding the picture any more than the rest of the artist's work!

[Philoctetes]

Finally got there, after a clunking series of pdms over several sessions. For the penultimate clue i solved I had rejected the answer that popped into my head because it was a name we apply to one of our cats who was also mentioned in the clue, so I thought I was simply associating! Hint: if an answer pops in, it may well be right. But I must say I loved the clue about the artist's family.

[Deviant]

Urgh! My brain hurts. I've struggled through this one, though the grid wasn't to hard to complete once I'd got going.

I have the completed grid, the name of the forgery & artist, the location of the ambiguity, I understand the significance of the down misprints (at least I can derive something from the first 3 words), but I haven't got a coherent charade that leads me to how to map the colors (sic) onto what to paint.

[robinruth]

You have all wisely been teaching me to look at the title. Deviant - look at the second word of it and tie it in with the first word of the charade (and what people have been saying about the shape of two 'regions') If you have the location of the ambiguity, you have a region - look for another! Hope that isn't too much help.

[Mysterons]

How satisfying when knowledge acquired from a previous puzzle can be applied again -as I think this has already been touched on above, the last across entry took us back almost 2 years and exactly 101 puzzles to Double Entry by Adam, surely one of the most difficult Listener puzzles in recent years.

[shelouse]

I am still struggling. Have got almost half the grid, but the misprints in the across clues don't seem to mean anything - have I got a lot wrong? Am finding this one really hard, and it's the first this year that I haven't finished. Depressing, as I thought I was getting better.

[Mysterons]

Don't despair, shelouse - this is not an easy Listener, and you will need a few more across misprints before the message becomes apparent. You still have a full week, so keep chipping away at those clues.

NB Don't forget that the across message has been 'tampered with'.

[JackDeCrow]

Shelouse - it's certainly a feature of some of the words in the across message that they can look very unpromising with even a couple of letters missing. I had nearly all the letters before I realised what was going on. So don't give up, you probably haven't got them wrong!