Listener Crossword 4032

[starwalker]

Highlighters at the ready. This week's fix is "Disorders" by Phi. Best of luck to all.

[AHearer]

Thank you, starwalker. Quite a pleasant puzzle, though I didn't like the definition in 7d: distinctly under-proof.

[midazolam]

I enjoyed this weeks Listener from Phi who as ever gives sound fair clues. Agree about 7 down though, even the clue does not make sense. Spirit makes the clue sound much better.

I wonder how long it will take for someone to ask how many must be highlighted. As we provide hints for each other here, this i feel should not be revealed. It is nice to try and track them all down in Chambers.

[turnerjmw]

Good fun, this. I endorse AHearer's comment on 7d, but wouldn't want it to detract from an enjoyable solve. Not as much of a struggle as some recent ones, though the longer clues took a fair bit of unravelling. I didn't help myself by having the incorrect unclued word for a long time!

I agree with midazolam, too, that hints should not be too obvious. Some of last week's gave the game away rather easily, in my view.

Many thanks to Phi

[kwyjibo]

Just completed. I was a bit underwhelmed by the theme and especially the unclued answer. Chambers doesn't justify the clue for 7d in my opinion.

I agree about the 'hints' given last week, far too much information.

[starwalker]

Agree with all so far. 7d is decidely "duff" and yes, last week's thread was far too generous in its overly helpful offerings.

[Philoctetes]

Still not quite finished but thoroughly enjoying it as usual(and I join the group about 7d). Oddly, I have had three alternative answers to date, justified by wordplay and definition, so my pet gremlin is desperate to lead me astray.

[cluelessJoe]

sorry, but - like kwyjibo - I was not over-excited by the thematic content and was quite pleased just to get this one out of the way. Time now to throw some effort into unravelling the Spoonerisms in this weeks Azed.

[robinruth]

Well, I thought I'd log on and ask Midazolam how many were to be highlighted - somebody has to ask haven't they? No, seriously, though we have a lot of solutions, we can't sort out how to fit them and, as usual, wonder how you high-speeders always manage. But you have certainly poured cold water on those of us who come here hoping for guidance!

And, CluelessJoe, we are equally frustrated with AZED's spoonerisms. AZED is usually a romp but we can't get our heads round this one either!

[Clamzy]

I have just received this......

We have noticed that you have not been online for some time now...
Why not come back to The AnswerBank and get answers to your questions, and share some of your knowledge by giving others answers?

.....from The answerbank. I know i'm getting older but didn't think it was that long:-)

[emcee]

I've had the same email through this morning Clamzy! Haven't the foggiest why we should be getting them.

As to this week's puzzle: I found it tedious and thematically well below Phi's norm.

[turnerjmw]

Robinruth, keep cracking away. As a recent convert to the Listener who has benefited hugely from hints on earlier threads, it would be hypocritical of me to suggest they should be banned now my solving abilities seem, touch wood, to be improving.

I think many of the hints last week were fine. Several of them amount, in truth, to little more than "read the preamble carefully, and then reread it" and "is there any relevance in the title?", which is fine. But a few, particularly those which focused on the geographic, or particularly cartographic, aspect of the interpretation, seemed more like instruction manuals for completion rather than hints. Even the use of the word "colo(u)red" in an early post might have been considered an unnecessary steer, though that' was arguably clear only with the benefit of hindsight.

I think the giving of hints is an art, actually. As far as this week's puzzle is concerned, again, the first two sentences of the preamble are the key. Once you start finding answers to some of the "remaining clues", you should find their entry into the grid helps things along.

[cluelessJoe]

robinruth .. once I was in your position i.e. a fair number of solutions to normal clues I started out creating some disorder. As turnerjmw suggests, one of these read together with a 'remaining' clue in the grid generated something which seemed familiar. From there I made a lucky stab at the theme and came up with a list of about 35 possible thematic items - from which I managed to accommodate some in the grid .. and the rest of the fill followed - so effectively I managed to work backwards from the end. Maybe not what was intended by Phi, but I was relieved to find the shortcut.
Oops, from the above I think you can tell that the number to be highlighted is less than 35 - Never mind!
And now, it's back to the old town drain!

[Clamzy]

Thanks emcee it's good not to be the only one.
The email suggested I ask questions so here's one. My research suggests that the the IVR of a country changed from RU to BU on independence in 1962. Has Chambers (and Phi) yet to catch up?

[bobbycollins]

I quite enjoyed this, but totally agree that it didn't seem to really get going - once the theme was spotted it fell into place rather too readily. Also felt that the unclued light was weak, but I appreciate that compilers are often constrained with their options.

Am I alone in thinking that the definition at 29a is as dodgy as 7d? I liked the remainder of the wordplay though.

[midazolam]

Having been a regular contributor to this weekly thread for over 18 months I have given hints and indeed asked for them (which has improved my solving abilities). My comment, robinruth, never intended to pour cold water over those who need a steer in the right direction. I have been involved in several heated and sometimes derogatory discussions with few listener die hards to the point they tried to ban us from this site. Recently there have been some blatant revelations that could easily spark another war. Lets try and keep this site going and keep the peace with gentle nudges.

[robinruth]

Yes, thanks, Midazolam - my comment was only made as I hardly dared raise my head after all you experts had made it so clear that it was relatively easy for you - and I do understand about the Listener die hards. I have enormously appreciated your very discreet hints and voice on the thread.
And yes, indeed, I recognised that it had gone too far, last week, when coordinates appeared.
I have said it before and caused a stir, but I do feel that the silver salver or 'all correct' people are not those of us who come here hoping to find our way through our early puzzles - and a genuine conscience should keep them away.
Thanks as usual [and how many do I highlight :)]

[perseverer]

A second email today from Answerbank because I didn't respond to yesterday's. so before they start to use CAPITALS -

Am I correct in thinking you need to understand the thematic material before you can satisfactorily enter 13 ac?

[Cruncher]

I thought this was a nice stroll. For me the more successful puzzles have a PDM moment close to, or after the completion of the grid. Puzzles like this one, where the theme popped out about halfway through, leave me with a feeling of slight slog to finish the grid off, with waning enthusiasm and increasing irritation at the jumbled entries. Anyway, done now. A little specialist knowledge helped with the highlighting though I too wonder whether there are some more devious entries lurking in the grid. All will be revealed in a couple of weeks.

My observation about the posts is that the puzzles that continue to generate a dialogue towards the end of the first week are those where wayward disclosures get made. Necessarily they are the more difficult puzzles - hence the continued dialogue - but I also wonder whether some of the early solvers, who may have completed their own grids nearly a week before, indeed already posted them off, start to lose interest in the puzzle and therefore don't care too much what they disclose. I think there is a real art to giving useful hints without laying it bare. Perhaps there should also be the option of giving one or two red herrings...

Meanwhile back to those highlighted entries - I wonder if there's a twelfth entry. Eleven seems such an unlikely number.

[Mysterons]

robinruth - It's true there is a huge list from which to Pick (far more than 35), but you won't be hunting tons for this one ......... good luck m' lady !

[robinruth]

Oh please, please don't start giving red herrings!