Listener 4033: Beat It! by Lavatch

[emcee]

Evening all. I hope you don't mind me setting the ball rolling this week.

This week's puzzle is by Lavatch and has another hefty preamble. Good luck everyone...

[fancydan]

Got him.
Many thanks

[cruciverbali]

I think it is OK Cruncher, perhaps under the category of 'accepted' slang

These characters, without the gaps, should do as they say:

< i > italicise < / i >

< b > embolden < / b >

< a = href " paste or type your URL here to provide a link " > Give the link a title here < / a >


C

[nigel2]

Have completed but unsure whether 13d and 22ac each have one or two letters not indicated by wordplay (would appear to be two). Have four words of a kind but not five at moment as indicated in preamble - if 13d and 22ac each have two letters not indicated, does that mean that those letters unindicated form part of the fifth?

[Mysterons]

Your statement in parentheses is correct - the 4 letters contribute to 3 of the 5 theme words, so perhaps you are missing the word with a contribution from both the clues you mention ?

[nigel2]

Thanks, Mysterons. I have deduced the fifth word of the kind (seven letters) but, if this is the case, it seems as if 22ac should have 5 (not 2) letters not indicated by wordplay (to correspond with the 1 not indicated in 23d and 2 in 6d) - or am I missing something?

[turnerjmw]

I don't think you have a problem, nigel2. When the preamble refers to clues where one or two letters of the answer are not given by wordplay, it simply means that those letters have to be put in the set from which the five words of a kind can be created. It does not mean that a clue entry can only have a maximum of two letters replaced by lines (though this is the only one where more than two are removed), though I can see how it can read like that.

[nigel2]

Thanks for the clarification, turnerjmw. It also explains why 6d has one letter missing from wordplay (but a different number to be replaced). The preamble did have some scope for misunderstanding in this regard but now all is understood.

[growf]

In the end I had an A left over and was short an N - or, if you think the doubly-used letters should only appear once, I had an A and a T left over.

Not to worry though, I think my final grid is correct regardless.

[Mysterons]

There are 31 letters in the 5 thematic words, but only 29 letters omitted from wordplay (4 being at intersections), so the duplicated starting and ending letters (one of each) do only appear once in the latter group. Just 4 clues have 2 letters missing from the wordplay, to offset those 4 intersections where 2 clues are affected by one cell.

Which clues gave your 'extra' A and T please growf ?

[bobbycollins]

Evening, all

Once again the preamble rather put the wind up me but I hacked on and got there. the subject is one of my favourite works - I recommend the movie also.

Another (for me) difficult puzzle, but fair and logical, even if I didn't marry up all of the letters missing from the 25 wordplays.

Thanks, Lavatch

[Ruthrobin]

A difficult one for those of us who are weak on working out the wordplay. I have replaced five words and produced the diagram, and have all the titles plus author and hero but have got there by very 'roundabout' means and have grave doubts about some of my solutions.
Marrying up the letters of the word plays was not so much the problem as finding all the extra letters - which I simply haven't managed to do. I don't suppose that really matters does it?

[Mysterons]

It doesn't, as long as you are confident in the answers to the 25 answers from clues with deficient wordplay - I've been caught out by the occasional unchecked letter in the past.

[Ruthrobin]

Thanks, Mysterons, in fact I have a problem with wordplay where I know I get an extra N and believe I use a bit of small change in an eastern place, but my definition seems to lead to a proper name that is not in Chambers as such (it's in as a tropical shrub). Am I completely off track - (or off the circuit) there?

[perseverer]

This answer and one or two others made me feel Lavatch had relied on Bradford as much as Chambers!

[JackDeCrow]

Biggest PDM for me of the whole thing - realising what the word "indicating" in the preamble actually meant. Doesn't half clear a few things up!

[Mysterons]

No, it sounds like you are in pole position with that one Ruthrobin.

[Ruthrobin]

Perseverer and Mysterons - really appreciated, I've definitely crossed the finish line. My problem was partly that I had only the Collins Gem Bradford. Advice I received last week prompted me to order the complete one from Amazon and it has arrived this afternoon.
JackDeCrow, I'm going to see if I can get that pdm, as I seem to have arrived without it - I wonder how often one of the stages in the solving can be by-passed without serious consequences (hopefully).

[Ruthrobin]

Aha. JackDeCrow, I've just done my maths and worked through that wordplay with a highlighter, and can repeat your words "realising what that word 'indicating' in the preamble actually meant doesn't half clear a few things up". When will I learn to focus on the preamble?