Listener 4038: Playtime by Samuel

[midazolam]

I am pretty sure there are no ambiguities with Samuel's effort this time!

An enjoyable finish, even though many of the extra letters in the clues stood out very blatantly. This type of cluing is hard to construct (even more so with 2 letters), but I feel too easy to spot.

On balance, the clever denouement wins over the clues.

Thanks Samuel

[Mysterons]

The preamble suggests that 'twice' refers to the two empty slots that were filled, and their subsequent emptying.

[mad max]

I really enjoyed this one, much more my level, would like to understand wordplay of 14a though, is there a misprint?

[Scorpius]

There's no misprint in 14a apart from the deliberate inclusion of the extra letters. You need to work out what 'four' indicates and then what 'seven' indicates. The latter is dependent on a Chambers set of references that is being increasingly exploited by Listener setters.

[poorsolver]

oh dear, I am still none the wiser. :((

[mad max]

Thanks Scorpius, still don't understand it, but pleased to have completed.

[Mysterons]

four refers to 4 across

seven = s

[mad max]

Thanks Mysterons, I feel a bit stupid not seeing that now.

[Mysterons]

You shouldn't max, it's not a brilliant clue. After all, there are two possibilities for four in this context.

[ziller]

I got stuck on this clue thinking the extra letters were T & S, giving '...four, no even' as the clue ending. I was looking for 'fu' in the answer.

Got it all finished in the end though!

[robinruth]

Yes, Ziller, I did just the same but didn't like the 'no', so re-thought. I dislike clues that refer to other clues or solutions and agree with Mysterons that it was a poor clue - but, overall, really liked this one.

[tbayliss]

An ingenious puzzle. Not as easy for me as for some of you but got there in the end. Stick at it those of you stuck.

Just started doing the Listener recently after a few years away. They do take up a lot of time and I've been busy, but the numeric 4036 Base Jog tempted me - thoroughly enjoyed that and I'm hooked again.

This one I managed to fill in most of the grid quite well but had a struggle with finding some of the surplus letters to get the instructions due to some obscure word play. I then found this site and all your entertaining comments while head-scratching.

Reading all your messages about how easy it was made me more determined and once I got there it seemed obvious - just like the best puzzles and quizzes. Very neat, original and tough enough (for me) to be satisfying.

Still baffled by some of the wordplay so had to assume surplus letters to get to the instructions - no idea what Scots lines are for example.

[Mysterons]

That is great news thaylis - welcome (back) to the fold. You will find this site is excellent for ironing out just such bafflements !

(32: run for Scots = rin lines = LL)

[ziller]

I remember a puzzle with a similar theme appearing in the Idependent mag some years ago. The top & bottom rows were barred off and in each down answer, two letters were to be moved; one to the top row & one to the bottom row (to be deduced). The top row spelt out 'THE PENNY DROPS' and the bottom row was 'PPPPPPPPPPPPP' !

[tbayliss]

Thanks Mysterons. Never seen LL for lines or RIN before but I'll obviously learn more here. I think the concensus is Samuel has come up with a great grid and puzzle but his clues aren't great. There were at least 6 where I got the answer to fill in the grid but couldn't work out the word play - some I still can't. A good clue should make you kick yourself when you get it and say of course. And since when has seven been abbreviated to s? What about six?
Not sure about protocol here but has ziller given too much away?

[perseverer]

Chambers gives S as a medieval Roman numeral =7 or 70 and alsoo ll as an abbrev. for lines. Moral - you have to look up everything.

As for ziller's post, opinions will differ. I would say it was going too far, but on the other hand I don't think it will actually help unless you have filled the grid and carried out the instructions anyway.

[Mysterons]

ziller's research is interesting - I don't recall that puzzle myself, but there is a connection between last week's Listener and this week's Spectator crossword, as previously noted by robinruth