Listener 4105: Out to Work by Charybdis

[midazolam]

Wow...this was great. OK not the most difficult of clues, but what a bundle of fun! Lots of thematic material, the real words making this an extremely clever construction (despite the lack of real down words). Subtlety and lateral thinking required, all making sense to a very pleasing finish.

A couple of years ago I finished King's Rebel before I owned a copy of Chambers (therefore I presume fairly easy cluing) and it won the best puzzle of the year - this was probably due to its construction. Accordingly, this week's puzzle has to be up there in the best of the year so far. Thanks Charybdis you've made a tiring day so much better.

[daagg]

Also, I was expecting a completely different set of 4 words to go with the message from the down clues. However, it didn't take even my inadequate word searching ability long to realise that the first key letter was not present!

[cluelessJoe]

Very nice puzzle, but I'd still not elevate it to anywhere near the afore-mentioned heights of Kea's 'Admission' or Rebel's 'King' (btw, you got that one the wrong way round Midazolam - at least I can use my advanced years as an excuse for the odd memory lapse!).
Horizontally it's superb, but the car-crash of the remaining down entries sadly takes the edge off it. Fortunately (thank heavens) Charybdis was not tempted to disguise that behind down jumbles, so we did at least start off with real words.
I'm not being unnecessarily critical here, just pointing out where this, for me, falls just short of near-perfection. Undoubtedly a great puzzle - just not one of the handful of true greats. Thank you Charybdis.

[dr b]

Finally got back to this, and as so often happens (last week notwithstanding), I spotted a dumb mistake and the rest of the grid fell into place quickly. So I have the figure, and all the instructions, and it seems like what to do is clear (knock on wood), but now *that* will have to wait till tomorrow!

[tweaker]

Electronic Dictionaries. My subscription to Chambers inline runs out 3rd Dec. I'd like to buy one. There are several types about, does anyone own/use one which is specifically good for the Listener/EV. And has a wordwizard/anagram solver on it?

[silversolver]

Yes, a very enjoyable puzzle. Took me a while to work out the consequence of the instruction - like Zabadak and Daagg, I was expecting the figure to do something different. However, a very satisfying endgame once the light dawned. Thanks, Charybdis, for an excellent crossword.

[x_word_fan]

Tweaker - I've had a few electronic solvers - a useful one is based on Bradford though the keyboard is too small in my opinion - my best buy by far was the 2003 Chambers CD ROM which is about £15 - very little difference to the 2008 book - it does everything!

[tweaker]

good morning x word fan.

I have a G4 Mac! It won't run that disc unfortunately. There is for the ipod/ipad/iphone the Chambers dictionary 2009 which sync's with/through itunes for about £4 to £5. If I can access it through my laptop then all is well. I'll just use itunes to scroll through the dictionary. However, I'm not sure if it'll work like that - it might just be for iphone/pad etc... not not work on the laptop.
I like the online Chambers as it speeds up solving somewhat, but I see there are electronic aids around, it's just getting the one which suits my needs!

[starwalker]

Finally got around to finishing this off, after several interruptions. Lovely construction and lots of thematic content, but, for me at least, just missing that certain oomph to make it a serious contender for puzzle of the year. But then, we don't know what is still to come.

[flocker]

stumped by 43 and 45 ac. even though I've deduced the the figure is and I know which two letters are missing. Does "four new words relating to the message from the down clues" refer to the phrase formed from the extra letters in the down clues, or does it mean that the words are to be found in the down columns...?

[pushmi-pullyu]

Like Zabadak and others I expected the figure to do something different and wasted a lot of time following that up, but once I'd found the 6-6 epithet it all fell into place. Very enjoyable.

[catstail]

Still ploughing throught the clues. Felt very pleased with my solving of 32 down and 39 across. But the clashing letter is not going to make a real word (at least in English).

Perhaps the preamble is clearer when I have solved more, but I do find it difficult. I am assuming that 6 dn is the axis of symmetry i.e. the centre of the figure. Hmmmm

I bought an electronic dictionary c 20/12 ago. I was just starting cryptics and the constant flicking of pages made my wrist tendonitis flare up. I ended up with a seiko ER9000. It hasn't got Chambers, but the search/solving facilities are excellent (although the anagram solver needs all letters and wont work with a wild card). The ODE, ODQ, thesaurus, encyclopaedia are useful. The spellchecker covers a huge range of words, even ones not in the ODE. There are also dictionaries of slang and abbreviations, as well as Fowlers. It is not cheap, but it is built well - and has lasted in my hands.
http://www.amazon.co....qid=1285503314&sr=8-3
I have yet to find Chambers as an electronic aid - and would be pleased to hear if anyone has seen one. Chambers is on my computer, but it is not problem free, and of course it is not that portable.

[catstail]

Sorry about the bad English in second paragraph. I seem to have used a differnt tense with each verb in the first sentence.

[Clamzy]

This one took me a bit longer than usual. Like dr b I had a mistake (in the bottom left area), but even after correcting that, expected the figure to do the obvious which it didn't. I also spent time looking for the (again obvious) four words, which weren't there.
I must congratulate Charybdis on doing well that which good setters aim for i.e., to confuse and confound people like me:-)

[x_word_fan]

Re electronic aids - it has just come to my attention (from my daughter who works for the OED) that the their dictionary is available free on-line through your local library if you have signed up for their on-line sevice.

[daagg]

It's interesting that several of us were expecting something different to happen, because the actual event is exactly what this figure should do. I think I was thinking of a similar but different figure, though I'm not sure I could give it a name.

[Clamzy]

Daagg - I'm not sure about the event you refer to and it's difficult to discuss this without giving the game away. Having identified the figure via clashing letters I looked it up in Chambers. There we are given several definitions but not (I think) the one which the across extra letters instruction normally describes.
Apologies in advance if you don't know what the heck I'm going on about:-)

[midazolam]

I had noticed my error with Rebel, but wanted to wait to see who might correct me. Given our recent exchange cJ with mixing up the 's I should have guessed :)

My library card number gives me access to the concise OED and the ODE (also ODQ) but not he full OED. It would be interesting if you could find out more x_word_fan to see if we can get it

[teuchter2]

Thank you tweaker. I didn't get on to this until just now, but hope I have achieved it. It's in my profile now so that seems promising. I've now finished the grid, but haven't had a chance to figure out what to do yet. Still plenty of time for that.

[tweaker]

teuchter2,

it's worked! Glad I could help.

Those on the Electronic aid advice, thanks. Catstail, I didn't want to spend that much on one, I've looked through amazon and there is an Oxford one that looks promising, but I think this one, price wise, and it being a Chambers + anagram solver would be best. The only snag is it's a concise. Hmm! I wonder if it'll make much difference considering the amount stored on it's memory?

[tweaker]

Forgot to put a link. Check this out:

http://www.amazon.co....O3/ref=pd_cp_office_1