Listener 4107 - European Revolutions by Spud

[daagg]

A lovely ending! The "19 letters" is quite funny.

[Ruthrobin]

Ah! Now I see why it was important to find 19 letters. There was a fairly wide choice for one of the elements without that hint. I don't suppose we are expected to do some sort of battered wren act with this one?

[AndrewG-S]

Ruthrobin, you have me worried now - I didn't see such relevance for the 19

[flocker]

have hit a wall with most clues solved. The across instruction - if Ihave it correct doesn't make much sense; i have something short for the down clues and a number of letters for the type(?) of puzzle to be solved which don't unscramble into any thing recognisable (which means I have too few/many otr they're wrong I suppose). Also, some of the clues seem a bit murky - particularly 10 ac; 21 ac and 23 down. I have an answer for 21 ac but it would make more sense if there was a B before Ad's - not a misprint I supose? V frustrating with hours of work done to get mired down like this....where to go???

[7lattens]

If my assumption of the theme is correct will I be hampered with a fractured finger and my arm in a sling ???

[Clamzy]

It would seem from above that Midazolam knows SPUD and was maybe a test solver for this puzzle. If so please pass on my congratulations to him/her for a superb debut Listener.
The mathemtical element was right up my street as we say in our neck of the woods.

AndrewG-S - RR says it was important to find the 19. I think essential is the word as I don't see how the puzzle could be completed without amending them as the pre-amble says.

RR I did do the battered origami bit just to make sure:-)

[Ruthrobin]

Awfully sorry 7lattens - what bad luck - but no, to be really heartless - that leaves you three fingers and a thumb on one hand and all five on the other.

Flocker, just keep nibbling at it - the three sets of misprints all 'fit together' and when you manage to get something from the scrambled set, the others will be useful. So often I have felt the way you do just before light dawns.

[Ruthrobin]

Sorry - it's me again. Yes, Clamzy, so did I (but more to sort out my spatial confusion and see where to go!) My comment about the 19 was more in the sense of 'as opposed to 18, or 20,' say
Midazolam, please pass on my congratulations, too. What a lovely debut!

[Antmark]

The usual frustration. Have completed the grid. Have completed the across instruction but this only involved moving 8 cells.Have found the unaffected word and have unscrambled the theme. How do I work out where to go now? (i.e. the other 11 affected cells)

[Antmark]

P.S. Will the 54 cells all connect to the unscrambled theme? If not I have been wasting my time.

[Jogler]

How much fun was that! Crayons and testing and stuff..... thank you Spud.

[teuchter2]

I haven't had much time to devote to this but am about at the same stage as Antmark. I used to be able to do the original at a fair speed, but it is a skill I have long since lost. Will having such an item to hand help me with my quest?

[Ruthrobin]

No, teuchter2 - not in any specific way. Your awareness of the nature of the original is all that is needed. Of course, AndrewG-S you were quite right in your comment about the relevance of the 19. I hadn't fully appreciated the genius of the construction of this puzzle. What a dazzling debut!

[Zabadak]

Got there last night in Cheltenham while warning up for the compo. Definitely hampered by familiarity with the original and a determination to see the conventional thematic set somewhere. Decent début, very tough if the scrambled object has passed you by. I thought the "19" was cutely pedantic, and if I was being strictly accurate, not true, as if you do what you're told, even the ones that don't change, change. Still, Mido, be so kind as to pass on my thanks and congratulations.
PS - came 26th in the second heat, dammit, one off the free places.

[poorsolver]

Some of you may be aware that Derek Arthur (Viking) and the current Editor of the Listener Crossword died suddenly yesterday at the age of 65. A quiet, thoughtful and pleasant chap, he worked hard to ensure that the standard of puzzles remained consistently high. He was also consistently helpful and supportive to setters. He will be a huge loss to the crossword world. RIP.

[daagg]

Zabadak, that was what I found funny - you could make a case for saying that 19, 20 or 21 cells were modified. On reflection, I suppose that specifying 19 does remove any ambiguity about how to enter the letters in the modified cells.

[Zabadak]

Hi Daagg - I make that funny peculiar not funny ha-ha! But I did think, eventually, that this was brilliantly conceived.
I note one of the ads by Google currently is apposite - another Twilight Zone moment?

[teuchter2]

I finished fairly rapidly this morning after what to do dawned on me just after I went to bed. I did make use of the original as my spatial awareness is not good and I was having trouble finding the final element. I now have blackened fingers after writing on the said object. A very enjoyable puzzle, though I'm a bit flustered by the discussion on the 19. As I do have 19 altered cells and everything works out I won't worry my old head about that one any more.

[flocker]

I have so far resisted the very strong temptation to throw this in the waste paper basket and returned to basics: concentrating now on the missing scrambled clue letters, which appear from previous comments here to be essential to solving the whole thing - but the letters I have refuse to scramble into anything and as you can't be sure you haven't missed one or got one wrong it's a bit tricky - is the word(s?) very esoteric indeed?

[daagg]

Zab, yes definitely funny peculiar - sorry for any confusion caused.

flocker, I think you definitely need to sort out the scrambled letters. If you have the extra across and down letters, you should be able to find two relevant groups, which might help you work out what puzzle you are dealing with.

[AndrewG-S]

My final PDM just came, realising I could complete with a little ingenuity and without a trip to the stationery shop