Listener 4114 - Three Square by Elap

[Philoctetes]

No - I haven't quite finished it yet. Still, one of the joys of a Listener comes when you learn something new, and primitive triangles are new to me. I assume that the numbers in the threes are also the genuine "answers". I do love the mathematicals!

[Rogue-Elfe]

I don't know any carp fishermen, but otherwise, that doesn't sound too bad a punishment. Having solved Listener Mathematicals by Oyler, Polymath and Googly relatively easily (I have a maths degree), this is either an absolute stinker OR I'm missing something far too obvious. Something very nice happens on the last completed row before working on the triangles, but that must be coincidence because I can't see any evidence of the same elsewhere. One thing that I think is obvious, but the preamble doesn't actually make it clear; we are to enter a single digit in every cell, aren't we?

[Mysterons]

Yes we are Rogue-Elfe, and you are of course quite correct about the definition of primitive (or fundamental) triangles. You might like to try googling your two smallest rows to see if that gives you any clues as to what they might have in common.

[Rogue-Elfe]

Thanks Mysterons.
If this solves it for me, I'll ask the writer, Elap, to prepare his Carp for you.
You had been warned (but thanks anyway). Here we go.

[AndrewG-S]

R-E, entertaining though the punishment sounds I am going to respect the pleas of Elap. It is unusual (I think) for a setter to be so explicit on this site and since I suspect this took many, many hours to put together this seems to me to be the fair response. I guess I will suffer for this next time I need help...

[Mysterons]

Have you looked up the puzzle's title in Chambers yet ?

[Rogue-Elfe]

I do agree, AndrewG-S; unfortunately Mysterons has made the penny drop for me immediately by suggesting Google rather than giving a subtler clue.
Not sure if I ought to feel guilty about this or not: on the one hand maybe I shouldn't have asked and let the crossword go unfinished (I would never have thought of what turned out to be the correct solution); but on the other, Mysterons' clue is only of value to those who have fully completed the clues anyway - and made it therefore past the majority of the pleasure that comes when all the solutions gel together. Further, many people treat Google as a first option rather than not considering entirely. (I didn't know you can google numbers); so would not need that advice.
Elap, what do you think - is it carp time for he or me or the both of us now? In any case, I haven't yet found my solutions, but will attempt to do so now; and sorry if anyone feels that response 62 gives too much away.

[Rogue-Elfe]

Mysterons: Stop now, please. Otherwise Elap's efforts will all be in vain, and that isn't nice since he wrote the puzzle and has the patience and tenacity to keep an eye on this forum. I have the answer - no one else has even been so naughty as to ask.

[logophile]

Don't beat yourself up Rogue-Elfe, you haven't transgressed, and it sounds like you still have a fair amount of work to do. Mysterons hints state no more than what most of us do on a regular basis to complete these puzzles, so if you just needed a gentle reminder, that's fine. It certainly doesn't lessen Elap's magnificent feat of construction (just how did he do it ?).

[dr b]

from http://mathworld.wolf...veRightTriangle.html:

A primitive right triangle is a right triangle having integer sides a, b, and c such that GCD(a,b,c)=1, where GCD(a,b,c) is the greatest common divisor.

[Rogue-Elfe]

Certainly not, considering what I needed to do with Excel (already mentioned several times) to get there. Developed quite a nice little program with it, actually. Thanks for the reassurance. Lovely puzzle through and through; and since I wasn't missing anything obvious; it clearly was a stinker as well! Kudos, Elap.

[turnerjmw]

Not only should you feel guilty, Rogue-Elfe, you should be ashamed of yourself. Having asked for a hint on here in direct contravention of the explicit wishes of the setter, expressed twice, you now complain that the hint was too blatant, and that no more should be given away. Priceless. What did you really expect? Mysterons has plenty of previous form in giving the game away on here, so it could hardly be a surprise. A disgraceful discourtesy to Elap, which your subsequent flattery will not begin to erase.

[AndrewG-S]

Elap, I am sorry with the above outcome and reiterate my earlier post. If you would like some mild solace drop me an email on [email protected] as I have a couple of comments on the puzzle. If on the other hand you choose to ignore the lot of us I would not blame you.

[oldvic]

AndrewG-S

I will email you after the solution has been published - feedback (positive or negative) is always welcome.

Elap

[AndrewG-S]

Rest assured it is positive! Look forward to hearing from you in a couple of weeks

[daagg]

Thanks for that confirmation, dr b. I was agreeing with you before, but there were enough contradictory posts to keep me unhappy. With hindsight, I think this premable falls fairly heavily into the cryptic camp - even I find it a bit too obscure.

[trux]

I prefer words to numbers so :

Re : Elap's pleas Notes

Problem : Ape spells A .... (where A = "answer")

Advice : Please slap (with carp if you so wish)

Me : Ales ..... asleep (in that order)

[trux]

Sorry ... my original spacing was not duplicated - to make it look right, I hope

Re :

[trux]

Re : Elap's pleas
Prob : Ape spells A
Advice : Please slap
Me : Ales .... asleep

[BlackHugh]

trux -with greatest respect: have you had too many ales?

[sohcahtoa]

I just want to check before I proceed any further - is the value for P2 11?
B. Dillon