Listener 4118: Auf Wiedersehen by Loda

[AHearer]

I'm delighted to see that there is, after all, a Listener this week, and glad I signed up to the on-line service as our local newsagent does not open on New Year's Day.

It's a nice puzzle, but prompts me to ask whether anybody has correlated the intensity of the discussion here with the length of the rubrick.

[fyellin]

I have to agree with CluelessJoe. I can come up with a reasonable explanation for either ordering of the two letters.

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, so did I, but believe that the 'non phonetic' version makes more sense.

[AndrewG-S]

Yes I am on non-phonetic too. Happy new year everyone!!!

[dr b]

Agree RR, note that the letter that replaces the clash is the initial letter of the relevant title.

[BlackHugh]

RuthRobin, Bellabee - thanks for your conflicting advice I now have somone to thank (or blame) whichever route I take :-). I think I'll send in my current unsatisfying highlighting.

Regarding the relative ease of the puzzle: Wasn't someone suggesting a few weeks ago that easier ones tended to appear on bank holiday weekends to attract new solvers. This would appear to support that.

[trux]

IMHO, highlighting is most satisfying - even has a button on the top to make it work (if u see what I mean) - I thought this one of the best features (and more than excuses my earlier harumph about the central letters blocking the view - which, I would feel relatively confident about, must surely be in non--phonetic order although I see how others might make the alternative case but doesn't follow the preamble instruction well enough)

[IainGrace]

Agree a relatively gentle start to the year's endeavours. Always easier of course when the grid entries are real words and (mostly) non clashing. Finished it save that (a) we can't work out how we get what are assuredly the correct answers to 10 down and 12 down - the former doesn't rely on reference to a proper name, does it? - and (b) the alternative entries in the centre circle seem to us to be equally justifiable.

[contendo]

IainGrace - My understanding is that 10dn does indeed depend on a proper name, and an obscure one at that. 12dn would more legitimately have been clued substituting "round" for ""for".

[Clamzy]

I think 10d does indeed rely on a proper noun IainGrace but not sure about your and others' contention on the centre circle. The phonetics could be either way round quoth I.

[IainGrace]

Thanks to both. Now understand them both, including understanding how 12 down works as composed, although we won't say how, lest we are accused of giving too much away. A propos that topic as debated in previous posts, this instance seems a good example of how AB works - we are still in charge of the drive to our destination - just stopping for some intellectual refuelling.

[Clamzy]

Sorry contendo. Although a six minute gap is indicated, your post was not visible when I pressed send.

[jamesah]

An enjoyable puzzle helped by some Googling to confirm the tableaux and names and (eventually) to find the 28 letters. The two central letters are interesting, I'm not quite sure what 'thematic order' means but I suppose they have to relate to the thematic title. Anyway, a pleasant start to the New Year(greetings to all contributors and especially those who have helped me in the past when I've been stuck!)

[BlackHugh]

RuthRobin - Re: " good advice that I have received is that if you are dubious about something in a Listener crossword, and your 'obvious idea is not very satisfying', it is almost certainly not right and you should look again."
I have reviewed the grid and spotted the far more satisfying highlighting! Many thanks
(and I certainly don't think we have contravened any boundaries on hints. etc. )

[Ruthrobin]

Pleased about that Black Hugh - from what you said, it was fairly evident that you hadn't quite completed satisfactorily.

[Scree]

Are we really meant to highlight 'the clash cell'? (I've found it, and the other 28, and I hope I've solved everything). A couple of other niggles:

The wordplay for 30D seems to give a different unchecked letter from the one required by the answer

I don't find the exact spelling of 44A in Chambers

[perseverer]

Scree - one of the earlier posts explains why the clash cell is highlighted. Took me a while to figure out 30d, for the same reason, but its all down to how you interpret one's holding. Don't have Chambers 2008 but the required spelling is in earlier editions and the Chambers CD.

[bobbycollins]

Belated New Year's Greetings to all of the lovely ladies and gents hereabouts.

I really enjoyed this one, but have to own to opening the ODQ for the final step - well it's thirty odd years since I read the book. Sorry to disagree with friends, but I can see only one possible method of entry for the two clashing letters, although I do "see" why there may be some doubt.

Sincere best wishes to all

[Scree]

perseverer - thanks, I hadn't read it that way. I see it now.

In case it amuses anyone, my initial answer for 23D, grid A, of 4117 was 'crew'. The clue was 'Topless guard roused camp' and the added difficulty of unspecified clashing letters was getting to me

. I reasoned that 'screw' is slang for a prison guard, and a slightly poetic definition of 'crew' (as in 'the cock crew at dawn') would be 'roused camp'. It seemed to make perfect sense...and it took some time to spot the easier option of topping and jumbling 'guard'!

[Eril]

Still can't see your version of 12d Contendo - the given clue works for me! My doubts revolve around the puzzle date - the web-based one is 2010, the paper one is 2011. Is the puzzle the last of the year or the first? Or does it depend upon which version you submit? Or should it be treated as belonging to both? To neither?? Anyway, a nice puzzle with a neat denouement, though given the straddling of the year it would have been good to have had a Janus-themed puzzle.

[IainGrace]

As far as 12D is concerned, Eril, think it works "for" you because you have correctly interpreted the meaning of "for" in the clue.