Listener 4127

[Ruthrobin]

Has no one started a thread? Is it because people are a little bit disappointed with this one? Perhaps there is some clever twist that I haven't seen.

[bellabee]

i have one of the groups of 4 - which is pretty obvious really.

[tilbee]

All now resolved - not sure it was really worth the effort.

[bellabee]

me too - the other group is a bit more tricky - and silversolver is obviously right with the phrase - but needn't have bothered!

[bellabee]

it's probably the alternative phrase to what silversolver has gone for though.

[Stavrolex]

I think you're all being a bit hard on poor old Wasp. I actually found it quite refreshing to tackle a puzzle which could be done at one sitting, and I quite enjoyed the denouement whereby the entry method was literally provided by the two groups, as Wasp no doubt intended. Still haven't got the foggiest what the title means, but I'm sure it will come to me. Anyway thought I would post for the first time to even things up a bit...

[TheBear69]

I have both groups and get the connection with the across entry method. Wasp would have had a good idea if you had to find or enter the theme below the grid. Very strange that this was not required...

[Ruthrobin]

Yes, indeed, Stavrolex. Good to have you with us and I have to agree. Seeing the two thematic groups is a satisfactory denouement, and, fulfills the preamble.

[abns]

Is the phrase given by the title the same as the phrase given by the thematic groups? I seem to be in the minority whereby I understand the title but not the groups.

[tilbee]

abns - it is a different but equivalent phrase.

[dr b]

Yes, but the preamble states "two thematic groups which should help solvers discover the entry method for across entries." It seems that no one worked the puzzle that way (or could have possibly worked the puzzle that way). Perhaps the endgame should have required somehow identifying the contents of the two groups and writing something appropriate under the grid as thebear69 suggests.

[bellabee]

i don't think the endgame helps 'solvers discover the entry method', that is misleading - clearly the discovery needs to be made before the final step is understood [as everyone on this thread has proved].that said, i think - as i said earlier - much of the clueing was challenging.

[bellabee]

needn't have bothered with that last statement either......

[Stavrolex]

I think there's a difference between identifying the de facto correct way of entering across answers so that they fit, and discovering the "entry method", i.e. a precise description of what it is we have been doing. On completing the grid I would not have been able to explain succinctly how I had entered the answers. The endgame provided that for me, so I'm happy to give Wasp the benefit of the doubt on this one. Still stumped on the title though...

[bellabee]

it's the alternative 3 word phrase cryptically clued [and would suffice to justify the entry system regardless of discovering the link between the 2x 4 groups and the actual 3 word phrase]

[silversolver]

Just come back to this and have seen the light...quite satisfying although not exactly a jaw-dropping PDM. And as others have said, perhaps slightly disappointing that we were not required to demonstrate our understanding of the endgame as part of the solution.

[aldanna]

Maybe I felt crossworded out after last week (and no, I never quite got there, but very nearly) but I wasn't enjoying this much, and have stopped. I haven't even filled the grid, never mind in one sitting, and I don't know how to enter the across clues either. I'll stick with the Mephisto today, and maybe feel in a more Listenerish frame of mind by next weekend.

[Staurologist]

I think that it is unreasonable to expect jaw-dropping, as opposed to penny-dropping, puzzles every week. This was a pleasant task and didn't take too long. I solved it exactly as Wasp intended. The eight down lights suggested two thematic words, which, when linked (4,3,4), suggested a synonymous phrase (4,3,4), which confirmed that I was entering the across lights correctly. [Although it was admittedly a pity that you could solve the whole grid without ever understanding all of this.] The title then yielded itself by splitting into two parts (2,2), which cryptically gave the synonymous phrase. Then all I had to do was to tidy up the few missing 4,3,4. Now a challenge for setters--compose a puzzle entitled SPAD, using the meaning given by C.

[TheBear69]

Since none of the across entries have unchecked letters, not only did you not have to understand all that, you did not even have to solve the across clues. While it would be nigh impossible to complete the grid confidently without solving any of the ascross clues, I can well imagine that there are solvers who got enough to cotton on to the idea and then were able to complete the grid without solving some of the tougher across clues.

[tilbee]

Very briefly, once I had resolved the thematic groupings of the the 8 words, I was sidetracked by a famous incident of domestic abuse /. revenge, which occurred in 1993. Glad to see that this now has its own entry in BRB (albeit need to double the final consonant on one of the derived words). Now that would be a challeging theme to use for a Listener !

[pushmi-pullyu]

I agree, TheBear. It was too easy to fill the grid, and too unnecessary to figure out why. By the time the PDM came I'd pretty much lost interest in the whole thing.