Listener 4129, Letters Lament by Tangram

[dr b]

Greetings fellow Listenerites,

This should be a week free of controversy, I think. A nice solid puzzle, with the three different types of clues keeping things interesting. The two thematic grid treatments were a nice touch.

[pushmi-pullyu]

And happened again. All finished now. Very enjoyable.

[contendo]

Finally got there with a little lateral thinking at the final stage.

[trux]

Likewise, over the line (with a little help - thanks !). Excellent seasonal quotation, many sound tough clues, nice final treatment (though the pedant might argue that one cannot "return" vertically, only horizontally - don't think I'm giving too much away here - if so, apologies in advance) ... thanks, Tangram.

[teuchter2]

I think I have finished this one and enjoyed it thoroughly. I have a slight doubt in my mind over 20a, so am going to mull over this one a bit more. I'm not really sure about the misprint as yet.

[AHearer]

Yes, teuchter2, 20a was one of the ones that stalled me for a while. What was particularly embarrassing was that the Darin hit bit referred to something that my wife has recently been researching in the hope of pitching a programme to Radio 4. I really must pay more attention to our conversations over dinner!

[aldanna]

I have a nearly full grid but am finding this quite hard, mainly due to (a) getting my head round the different types of clues and (b) a busy weekend without the length of time I would need for a puzzle like this. Off to the Lake District soon so I may never finish this one. Still very cross with myself over the circular one - I had the grid all correct and still failed to complete it.

[teuchter2]

After a bit of research on the net I am happy with my entry, but have only just understood the misprint in the definition. The same could be said for 1a I suppose, although again I am quite happy with my entry, but according to my count there should be a misprint in the definition and I just can't get it!

[Clamzy]

Teuchter2 - Yes I have a definition misprint for 20ac but not for 1 ac.

[trux]

Teuchter : a quick glance at the Darin discography (on Wiki, for example) may settle any doubts ... the misprint is a bit forced also but just about works

[abns]

"Knowing the answer lengths did identify which were the LL clues, but the listener guidelines to setters specifically states that the answer length rather than entry length is recommended."

I can understand the rationale for this where the whole puzzle is LL, but I think that this is a situation where it would have been better to give entry length. I almost felt I was cheating by being able to locate straight away which were LL. Having said that, having the two different types of misprints made things tricky enough.

[bobbycollins]

That was difficult by my standards. First time that I've had to reference the Guinness Book of Hit singles for a Listener.

Is Mrs AHearer researching Darin or Debussy?

[Philoctetes]

Fairly straightforward, but cannot fathom the wordplay of the shorter thematic answer.Are the fourth and fifth words of the clue simply meant to be a synonym of the entry?

[dr b]

^That was my reading of the clue.

[abns]

I think it's effectively a triple definition, with one definition giving the answer, and the other two giving the wordplay.

[IainGrace]

Interested in earlier comments from those who found this difficult - especially from those whom we sense are superior solvers to us - as we seemed to crack it fairly easily. As has been said, one is assisted by the easy identification of LLs, half of which we got virtually straight away, along with the quotation. Not quite there yet so maybe we shouldn't count chickens.

[aldanna]

Picked it up for a last shot this afternoon - and finished it! A fun puzzle, I felt (then again, I possibly feel it's more fun when I haven't failed).

[ichkeria]

"Yes tilby i've been very methodical with this so i know it's correct. I think what clinches it for me is that the preamble specifies clue answers rather than entries."

Not sure I follow you there - surely there is no doubt about the final step. I don't think the wording "answers" vice "entries" is significant.

[shelouse]

I also liked this, though I thought the PDM a bit muted. Struggled like the rest with the same last two entries, but once you see it the problems of justification and 'one letter misprinted (never unchecked)' fade away. I wouldn't rate it as one of the most diffuclt of the year so far. However, I don't like the quotation: please don't remind me we've got to go through it all again next time around. Thanks, Tangram

[easterfool]

Noted that people thought that you had lost me as a reader/contributor. Unfortunately I am not able to tackle cfrossowrds as early as most of you so I tend to read after solving when everyone else has moved on - not much point in talking to myself. Still enjoy what others have written - don't like to do so until I have things solved and clear in my own fuddled mind. Hope to be able to start earlier when I no longer have to keep splitting between home and parents' home - one aged parent in hospital, other needs looking after at his home. Keep up the good work - it is nice to know that Ihave got the right idea even if I am working 10 days after everyone else i.e.just finished Trev's - loved it when the chemical messages to the brain worked.

[tenflags]

I understand easterfool - I'm a rear gunner - often start after others and captain slow anyway. Educated on this one which I thought was tough. Normally I don't see the point in saying something unless it is useful although It seems to me that most entries on these threads are not necessarily about 'contribution' per se but more about 'how was it it for you', and a sense of comradeship. If nothing else it is comforting to see that others are struggling too - well some of us do anyway.