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Has Remembrance Improved ?
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I have been impressed in recent years by how seriously Remembrance is now taken, to the extent of shops putting up signs saying that the staff will stand for two minutes' silence at 11. I can remember Remembrance in Cambridge being so poorly observed that when the bugle sounded at 11 about half the people carried on as though nothing at happened.
Old people may remember when everything stopped and police would stop the traffic, lest drivers hadn't noticed the time. We haven't quite got back to that. I suspect that Iraq and Afghanistan have a lot do with younger people taking this more seriously; they might not identify with wars and conflicts killing soldiers many years before they were born, but they can with people of their own generation being maimed or killed.
Old people may remember when everything stopped and police would stop the traffic, lest drivers hadn't noticed the time. We haven't quite got back to that. I suspect that Iraq and Afghanistan have a lot do with younger people taking this more seriously; they might not identify with wars and conflicts killing soldiers many years before they were born, but they can with people of their own generation being maimed or killed.
Answers
Civilians are no longer isolated from the realities of conflict. Via the media, the dangers presented by today’s world, the work our forces are doing to combat that, and the losses they are suffering, confront us all every day, and that is probably instrumental in the upsurge in expressions of patriotism.
08:23 Tue 12th Nov 2013
I am a bit cynical about Remembrance day. It is good for a country to remember the horror of war but we are no further forward to ending wars than we were 100 years ago.
It is maybe a different issue from remembering those that have fought for our country but 'man's inhumanity to man' is a bigger issue. (and in general I mean man as in the male of the species).
It is maybe a different issue from remembering those that have fought for our country but 'man's inhumanity to man' is a bigger issue. (and in general I mean man as in the male of the species).
you have hit the nail on the head perfectly it would be interesting to see how rememberance sunday and armistice day would be observed if it were not for recent conflict,it is refreshing to see so many young people remembering the fallen not only of recent conflict but of past conflict too..lest we forget...
I think the television images that came from Wootton Bassett must have had a great effect on people of all ages.
WW1 belongs to the history books now and even WW11, ending 65 years ago, is going the same way.
The wars in the Middle East have made the sacrifices seem very real to a younger generation who wouldn't have given much thought to the earlier conflicts.
WW1 belongs to the history books now and even WW11, ending 65 years ago, is going the same way.
The wars in the Middle East have made the sacrifices seem very real to a younger generation who wouldn't have given much thought to the earlier conflicts.
I admit that a trip around the Black Watch Museum a few years back made me really think about the first world war. There were pictures of very young and innocent looking young men. The were expecting this to be the war that would end all wars.
I can't even begin to imagine the horror of WWI. These days the soldiers enlist and are trained in what to expect. This is bound to help them cope to a certain extent.
I can't even begin to imagine the horror of WWI. These days the soldiers enlist and are trained in what to expect. This is bound to help them cope to a certain extent.
And, in some places memories, even if not those of the young, but second hand, do persist. If we think our Remembrance is observed you should be in France, as I was today. Today as always, it is a national holiday but it is a solemn one. In Antibes the ceremony started at 8.45, with wreath laying at the war memorial in Juan-les -Pins, and adjunct of Antibes, then the procession moved to the harbour, for wreath laying at the sailors' memorial, then to the monument of a great Resistance hero, then to outside the town hall for 10. 40 where a band played and a guard of honour was assembled. Short speeches from dignitaries there and then there was complete silence from 10.55 to 11.04, when the assembly was declared closed and the band struck up again; the large crowd then dispersed to the nearest bars and cafes! Well, it is France !
But we have not got memorials in town squares, on buildings and in country lanes, to citizens who were shot by the Germans and our country was not in enemy hands.
But we have not got memorials in town squares, on buildings and in country lanes, to citizens who were shot by the Germans and our country was not in enemy hands.
>>>Has Remembrance Improved ?
It just leaves me more and more bewildered.
I don't 'do' remembrance in any form. I refuse to attend funerals. I've removed the markers on my parents' graves. I'd make organising or attending funerals illegal. My will requests that I be cremated without ceremony and that my ashes be disposed of, also without ceremony, in any convenient refuse receptacle.
I simply don't get any of it. When you're dead, you're dead, that's it. You should be thrown into landfill, or tossed into the council's incinerator, and forgotten about. For me, caring about a living human being is a weakness. Caring about a dead one is pure madness.
OK, I know that I'm on the autism spectrum but, as I see it, that simply gives me the vision to see that grieving is pointless. I really, really, don't get it at all!
It just leaves me more and more bewildered.
I don't 'do' remembrance in any form. I refuse to attend funerals. I've removed the markers on my parents' graves. I'd make organising or attending funerals illegal. My will requests that I be cremated without ceremony and that my ashes be disposed of, also without ceremony, in any convenient refuse receptacle.
I simply don't get any of it. When you're dead, you're dead, that's it. You should be thrown into landfill, or tossed into the council's incinerator, and forgotten about. For me, caring about a living human being is a weakness. Caring about a dead one is pure madness.
OK, I know that I'm on the autism spectrum but, as I see it, that simply gives me the vision to see that grieving is pointless. I really, really, don't get it at all!
many a soldier in ww1 and 2 were executed for ''cowardice'' even though they were suffering from shell shock..there was no training for those poor souls on what to expect in conflict..the wars were fought in a very different way in those conflicts,different terrain than what todays soldiers are fighting in,and of course todays soldiers have advanced technology than a mere royal enfield and a tin hat.
thats a very sad viewpoint in my opinion buenchico..its called respect,and being respectful of people sacrificing their lives so that others may live in safety and go about their daily lives without the fear of terrorism is in my eyes is worth remembering,without the people of the armed forces,both today and from years gone by,who fought and died to maintain your freedom you would not be enjoying your life today..each to their own viewpoint of course..but remember people died so that you can have your say in a democratic society..i quote you ''when youre dead..yore dead'' but lets not forget people are dead because they died fighting for YOUR freedom.. oh well each to their own...
the nation seems more devoted to remembrance now than say 20 years ago. This is odd since, back then, there were a lot more people around who'd fought in a war themselves. Perhaps it was they who were doubtful about the value of commemoration, or who at any rate thought it was essentially a private affair for those who personally remembered the dead? What we are doing now is remembering people we didn't know, which sounds like a contradiction in terms.
No soldier was executed for cowardice in World War Two, but some 365 were executed for it the Great War.
How, Buenchico, do you remember the passing of your parents? Have you forgotten it, or does you grief not extend to having any more that an anonymous grave? Do you find any remembrance of the death of anyone to be tasteless? But that's more to it than that. The French remember their immediate history of , at least, the last 70 years. The scars are in their national psyche. To a lesser extent, those scars are in ours. It will take a very long time before those go. And we should not forget that people who died did so in protecting our country, without which our country and our world , and ,in many cases, we ourselves, would not exist as they do.
How, Buenchico, do you remember the passing of your parents? Have you forgotten it, or does you grief not extend to having any more that an anonymous grave? Do you find any remembrance of the death of anyone to be tasteless? But that's more to it than that. The French remember their immediate history of , at least, the last 70 years. The scars are in their national psyche. To a lesser extent, those scars are in ours. It will take a very long time before those go. And we should not forget that people who died did so in protecting our country, without which our country and our world , and ,in many cases, we ourselves, would not exist as they do.
Bewildered Buenchico? Why are you bewildered? Because someone believes in something you don’t? You admit “you don’t ‘do’ remembrance in any form”, fine, that is your right. But don’t knock those of us who wish to remember those who gave their lives or got injured for the sake of our freedom. Over the years they are the ones that have given you the right to voice the opinions you have on this thread. Do they not deserve your respect?
Fine you want no fuss when you die. As you see it “when you’re dead you are dead.” That is perfectly true. But families and friends remain, and for the main part the funeral or any ceremonies are usually for those people who are still alive, to grieve or celebrate the life of the person that has died. What did removing the markers from your parents graves achieve? Did you ask the permission of the person who put them there, as it obviously wasn’t you?
The bit I really don’t get is you say “caring for a living human is a weakness.” How can you say such a thing like that? But I think you contradict yourself with that statement. Because it’s funny you posted yesterday that you were worried about your cat being run over when you were trying to go to the pub, is that not caring for a living being?
Yes Fred, Remembrance has improved, awareness is now greater. Yet today in my local market a man and wife of about 60ish ‘kicked off’ because a stall holder wouldn’t serve them during the 2 minutes silence. Is 2 minutes silence and contemplation once a year too much to ask?
Fine you want no fuss when you die. As you see it “when you’re dead you are dead.” That is perfectly true. But families and friends remain, and for the main part the funeral or any ceremonies are usually for those people who are still alive, to grieve or celebrate the life of the person that has died. What did removing the markers from your parents graves achieve? Did you ask the permission of the person who put them there, as it obviously wasn’t you?
The bit I really don’t get is you say “caring for a living human is a weakness.” How can you say such a thing like that? But I think you contradict yourself with that statement. Because it’s funny you posted yesterday that you were worried about your cat being run over when you were trying to go to the pub, is that not caring for a living being?
Yes Fred, Remembrance has improved, awareness is now greater. Yet today in my local market a man and wife of about 60ish ‘kicked off’ because a stall holder wouldn’t serve them during the 2 minutes silence. Is 2 minutes silence and contemplation once a year too much to ask?
BC, you are not alone. See this headline from tomorrow's (viz. Tuesday's) Times:
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I agree with much that Chris has said. Both my parents had died by the time I was 40. I missed them and was upset but not overly emotional. I only have my cats and my brother and his family left.
We are all different and see the world differently. The suffering of the soldiers of all wars where they were conscripted and forced to fight is something that should not happen.
Men and women who join the military do so knowing what will be expected of them. It is not a job that I could see myself doing.
We are all different and see the world differently. The suffering of the soldiers of all wars where they were conscripted and forced to fight is something that should not happen.
Men and women who join the military do so knowing what will be expected of them. It is not a job that I could see myself doing.
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