Listener 4360 What A Turn-Up! By Ioa

[trux]

Great fun all the way through. Required only elementary number-crunching so numerophobes should not be put off. And a very neat and satisfyingly unambiguous ending, so thanks all round to IOA for a really fun puzzle. Shame about the cricket.

[Contrarian]

Yes, I absolutely loved this one. Some of the clues appear to give one very little to go on, but the symmetry constraint makes things easier.

Thanks IOA.

[perseverer]

Perhaps less of a fan than the two earlier posters, but I did like the word that appeared.

[AHearer]

OK, I suppose. I'm not happy about the way the digit 1 is handled, though.

[s_pugh]

Although an averred numerophobe I thought I’d give this a try as it seemed to me that given some numbers cannot achieve symmetry the options must be limited, but my attempts to resolve 1 and 14 down proved impossible using this premise. Is the pre-amble misleading? Without wishing to spoil I can’t see how the digit 1 can appear as surely it cannot achieve symmetry as it is displaced to the right as opposed to centralised? I fear the bin is going to win.

[starwalker]

I'm with AHearer on this. It does seem to be a flaw, but thanks anyway IOA.
s_pugh - hang in there.

[Contrarian]

Perhaps we are expected to place the 1s so as to preserve symmetry. Entries which fail to do this will be marked incorrect.

[sunny-dave]

Excellent Excellent Excellent

What a joy to solve.

I started Listeners all those years ago with a few numericals that appealed to my logical mind. But over the years I've come to cordially dislike the interruptions to the standard 'alpha' puzzles - I can usually do the numericals, but they often seem to involve far too much programming and/or spreadsheeting to be a fair challenge for everybody.

This was great though - pure logic - no need for computer power beyond a pocket calculator and a lovely definitive twist to finish.

Thanks IOA - on my 'favourites of the year' list for sure.

Dave xx

[s_pugh]

I don’t believe it – thicko WVM made it through a numeric! Even the top line grid stare didn’t take too long, largely assisted by a long unused box of England’s Glory - other brands are available … ;¬)

Some interesting clues, I found 7ac particularly amusing. Thanks IOA.

[Cloverjo]

Yes, lovely puzzle. I took a while to get going, and seeing the word at the end took a bit of staring. Great when you finally get it.

[icynorth]

Nice original puzzle, and a mercifully quick grid-stare for a change! Thanks IOA!

[Oyler]

Nice idea using calculator bars and coupled with the symmetry restraint to reduce possible entries made this a neat puzzle. I think there will be some latitude regarding the placement of the digits in the cells and how they are formed. After all some with older calculators will show all 7 bars for 8 whilst others will have them joined up as in the example to the right of the grid. Being picky, one of the clues was unnecessary and could have been replaced by number or not given at all!

[emcee]

I'm glad you mentioned about the extraneous clue, Oyler. I thought it was just me that was perplexed as to why that clue had been given!

Despite that, and the "1" debate, a very good numerical. Thanks to IOA.

[borealis]

Very good indeed. Liked all the ways you could (and I often did!) go wrong - deliberate traps or maybe just the nuances of the symmetry. For once with a numerical, you didn't seem to have to restart the whole thing because the logical way through was more apparent. Thanks IOA

[sunny-dave]

I agree borealis - it was refreshing when finding an error in one's way through a numerical to be able to backtrack and select the correct leg of the trousers.

[petefoxes]

The 1 discrepancy is a bit of a shame - I got some way before realising, and this threw into doubt the answers I'd derived for the clues which got me started. The discrepancy could have been somewhat averted if the digit in the examples next to the grid (in the Saturday Times printed version) were written centrally. I can think of two ways to write them in the grid for submission, neither of which is really consistent with what a calculator would show.

Otherwise it was very entertaining with a good finish. Thanks, IOA.

[IainGrace]

For númerophobes the Inquisitor in today's Independent is a good challenge.

[BMACMAC]

An interesting puzzle, though not as difficult as some. Like others, I first had to resolve the issue with the digit 1, but as the wrong choice leads to an obviously impossible puzzle, it didn't take me too long to get past that.
One thought though, how do those people who disapprove of spreadsheet etc. cope? Unless you have access to a large table of squares, I'd have thought that finding solutions to some of the clues would be rather laborious.

[Oyler]

Regarding spreadsheet use, I found it unnecessary and used a list of square numbers and a basic scientific calculator and it took a couple of hours to do. The symmetry restraints speed thing up enormously. I can't help wondering about the 1 controversy and if this had been a word puzzle would solvers have agonised over how to represent an M and W?

[borealis]

Come on, Oyler. You know that numerophobes will argue over trivial details like how to spell a letter "b", as in "Kolb"!!

[Oyler]

Well yes! However numerical setters are not normally that twisted - we're just happy to have something published!! Or I am at any rate.