Listener 4480 The Code Duello By Agricola

[Ruthrobin]

A new setter, I believe and he really presented us with a challenge. I dislike Playfair almost as much as jumbles and am really happy that there are programmes that help on line. What a relief when we saw where we were going and everything worked. Many thanks to Agricola.

[Hagen]

And there was me thinking we'd got away without a Playfair this year...

I share RR's dislike of Playfair and have always skipped them, or just filled in the normal answers and left it there, until the likes of Quinapalus provided an electronic means to "finish" these puzzles without too much effort. Perhaps using such aids is not cricket in some people's eyes, but for me Playfair codes fall right into the "life's too short" basket and anything that will crack them quickly is OK in my book. Just my opinion, of course!

At least in this case the code words had relevance, which made the puzzle far more enjoyable. This may be in contravention of the Notes for Setters which states that "The editors will not accept puzzles that use Playfair encryption where the code word or phrase may be guessed from the theme" - a ruling which I have always found perverse since a relevant thematic word surely justifies the Playfair device rather more than some random word. Again, just my opinion!

I don't think that the code words could have been guessed from the theme here, but once you get them you do feel that there is some point to it all.

This is all rather grumpy so let me say that if we've got to have Playfair, this is by far the best way to do it. Well done, Agricola.

[olichant]

Wow - I found that endgame pretty tough. I'm not a lover of Playfair either, but it was used very nicely here. And some really excellent, tough clues as well, which made for a very enjoyable gridfill. Thanks, Agricola - I really enjoyed that.

[pushmi-pullyu]

Wow, even with Quinapalus that was really hard. Fun though.

[HappyUncle]

Quiet in here tonight, but then I've missed quite a few puzzles this year by dint of necessity. A minor operation earlier in the week has provided me with a much-needed incentive to slow down and enjoy myself more, and this was a perfect diversion, which I took my time over. As others have admitted, Quinapalus is now the weapon of choice for Playfair, which got me home and dry with a smile. Nice to have the thematic creature as an essential confirmation of which code to use where. Thank you, Agricola.

[Scorpius]

Welcome back, HappyUncle, and pleased to see you happy.

Like others I also found the Quinapalus site invaluable. In the past I have quite enjoyed working out the Playfair code for myself, but with no idea of the answer to 10d, uncertainty about 1a, and only four sets of checked letter pairs, I had little to go on. Normally one has a collection of four-letter and six-letter answers with one or two unchecked letters each.

As to whether or not that is cricket, Hagen, I'm happy to resort to the aid because I'm not convinced that the setter 'played fair.' The clues to 1 and 10 do not conform to Listener rules. In the clue to 1 there is an element that normally would require an indication that is obsolete and dialect. The clue to 10d strikes me as, let's say, 'unsound.' If I am wrong then my pronunciation all these years has been faulty.

[Cruncher]

Resisting mechanical aids to decrypting the Playfairs and somewhat puzzled about some of the word play but otherwise can see where this is going and helped to take my mind off a heart op yesterday. So much appreciated

[HappyUncle]

Thank you for your kind words, Scorpius. I agree that the Playfair challenge short-changed the solver in comparison with the usual levels of assistance provided - bad enough with only one code word but probably impossible with two. I'm glad my intuition took me straight to the automated method.

I don't feel that the clues to 1 and 10 were unacceptably liberal, though. The setter had limited freedom of length in both, and I was happy to forgive the omission in the clue to 1. As for 10, without giving anything away, I would say that the first word of the clue applies to both the first and second syllables of the answer, giving the pronunciation that I've always used, and which would have been used by the original 10d as well.

[HappyUncle]

Good heavens, Cruncher, you weren't solving this while the op was in progress, were you? I thought I was doing well to solve it two days after coming home! Seriously though, I can empathise (a little) and synpathise (a lot). Wishing you well at a difficult time.

[Cruncher]

Happyuncle I'm quite obsessive but not quite that far along the spectrum - yet! Had a stent op - the bigger drama was a few months back when I was an emergency admission with a heart attack. So this was a follow-up op. 45 minutes of staring at a ceiling whilst someone pokes wires around inside where no wires really ought to go, and they got lost at one point, and then four hours of enforced bed rest whilst chained to an ECG machine. So Agricola helped to divert my attention away from my ever-burgeoning bladder. Hope you are doing well

[Scorpius]

HappyUncle, I realized that the first word applies to both syllables, but I still query it, and having listened to it pronounced on the internet, I still maintain it's questionable. It's not the consonant but the sounding of the vowel, about which the Listener normally has strict rules.

[Ruthrobin]

Cruncher and Happy Uncle, best wishes to both of you!

[emcee]

Quinapalus to the rescue for me as well -- too few pairings to try and deduce the codewords logically.

Nice puzzle, but I do feel as though I've cheated with the endgame.

Thanks, Agricola for an otherwise enjoyable solve.

[olichant]

Cruncher and Happy Uncle - best wishes from me too.

[Hagen]

My best wishes too Cruncher and Happy/Angry Uncle. Crosswords are trivial compared to some of the less pleasant necessities of real life and I hope all works out for the best for both of you.

[Cruncher]

Thanks! Good news is that the customary dementia test is a doddle compared to cracking Playfair squares. #transferableskills

[HappyUncle]

Many heartfelt thanks to all of you who offered kind wishes. Things are moving steadily in the right direction, and the recovery zone is much more Happy now than Angry, although things were looking very Ugly for a while.

[icynorth]

Well, I found this bruising, especially cracking those two wordplay clues without definition or any crossing letters. The Playfair bit was not so difficult after that. So, thanks Agricola, but it's not my kind of puzzle.

But I'm sorry to learn of regulars here going under the knife - I really hope you both feel better soon.

[sunny-dave]

I cordially dislike Playfairs (never was a device less accurately named), but this was actually a very good puzzle.

The two code words were relevant to the theme (as I think Playfair words in Listeners should be) and the either/or mechanism made for some interesting clueing.

A happy use of a few hours in snowbound Northants - thanks Agricola.