Witches unite

[taperface]

Hello again, and blessings! Why do some witches prefer to call themselves pagans? Is wicca such a bad word?

[WaldoMcFroog]

I suspect there is an issue around etymology and usage here.

The word 'witch' is derived from the Old English masculine noun 'wicca' and the feminine noun 'wicce', meaning sorceror and sorceress respectively. Going further back, there are possibly Germanic or Norse roots.

So, etymologically speaking, there is a clear link between 'witch' and 'wicca'. However, 'Wicca' is also a specific type of 20th century duo-theistic paganism.

However, there are other pagan religions which also use the word 'witch' but that are not Wicca.

All Wiccans are pagans and all Wiccans are witches.
All witches are pagans but not all witches are Wiccans.

[Whickerman]

...and not all Pagans are witches!

Hi Taperface.

I used to be a practicing Wiccan/Witch, but have found myself in a different frame of belief for the past few years. Still very much Pagan, but not a Wiccan.

[dot.hawkes]

i was born on halloween, does that count? Can blondes be wtiches?

[Whickerman]

But to take your question in another context - I know a lot of people who are very comfortable describing themselves as Wiccan (most people like having a label i suppose) but some of them are not comfortable calling themselves Witches, due to mainstream society's take on that word. Maybe it's a cowardly way out, maybe not?

[naomi24]

Whicker, If you don't mind me asking, what changed your belief?

[taliesin238]

I prefer to call it natural magic than wicca or witch cos i find the whole thing can be very err?? protencious and people do it just for the reaction!!

It trully means something to me to be a 'Pagan' I celebrate nature but dont make spells or use the forces of nature to get what i want out of life!! I just make sure i am a part of the natural world as i can be!! I honour everything natural and honour all the cycles of nature!!

You can be a pagan and also be a christian, muslim, jew, buddhist!!

[Whickerman]

Hi Naomi - long time no chat (this section's been oddly quiet of late!)

I'll be 100% honest and admit I don't know. It's not like I woke up and had a revelation or anything, so I'm not sure I'll be able to explain this...

I think I had a lot of time for reflection as to my religion, and how I got to where I was, and i found that I'd had my basic ideals ever so slightly coloured by people I was spending time with. I suppose I went from being animist (though not understanding the nature of my core values and beliefs) to spending time with like-minded people who mostly happened to be Wiccan. That religion had 99% of my beliefs encapsulated in it, and I really got a lot out of it - including a lot of education. Bear in mind that there's a hereditary folk-religion in my family, but this was a structured system that met my needs. You may know that in modern Wicca there's usually 3 levels of initiation, and it was when I'd reached the stage that I was ready for the second that a lot of meditation is called for. I realised in that time that I didn't actually believe in supernatural personalised deities as such, but rather the natural forces that they originally represented. It's a subtle but important difference. I decided it was time to re-explore my own soul and beliefs and here I am, maybe 7-8 years later and content!

I know this answer only scratches the surface, but I'd need chapters to explain the basis of all this, so forgive the brevity.

[naomi24]

Thanks Whicker. I can certainly understand that. To my mind there's a vast difference between a belief in supernatural personalised deities and the natural forces they originally represented.

You're right - this section has been quiet lately. I wonder where everyone's gone? Spooky! IS ANYBODY THERE?

[jake-the-peg]

Sounds awfully like "Spinoza's God" Whickerman

Or maybe I've misunderstood

[Whickerman]

Hi Jake - no, I don't think you've understood at all. I have to admit I had to google spinoza as i'd never heard of him, but it seems he was responsible for a train of pantheistic thought.

Animism and Pantheism share a lot of values - about 99.99% in fact. The big difference is that us animists believe that living things, places, etc have spirits.

Thanks for the info though - something new to research!

[jake-the-peg]

The reason I thought that is because the concept of Spinoza's God relates closely to nature.

God and nature are almost synonymous Albert Einstein said:

�It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem�the most important of all human problems.�

So your rejection of personalised deities but rather the forces that they represented seemed to have a fair degree of similarity at least to my rather rationalist eye

[taperface]

Thank you Whickerman - I think you answered me in a nutshell. I am a practising witch & have no qualms about saying the word, or mentioning Wicca, but reactions vary, so I'm not surprised that some people steer away from stating the same fact. What annoys me, is that when filling in personal details - i.e. on forms at my children's school, I notice that when "religion" is left blank, some busybody enters "Anglican" in my absence. I once went into the school office to tell them that, as a witch, my children's beliefs are for them to decide later. Their expressions were priceless!