Theatrical work period?

[firefly]

What's the answer to this cryptic clue.

[firefly]

sorry, it's five letters

[Quizmonster]

'Stage', possibly?

[football]

'plays' or 'drama'

[Quizmonster]

Well, my thinking was firstly that 'theatrical work' is often referred to as 'the stage'. "Don't put your daughter on the stage, Mrs Worthington" means exactly the same as not putting her into theatrical work. Secondly, a 'period' is another name for a 'stage'...in one's life, for example. "At that stage, I was not ready for promotion."

Accordingly, the single word 'stage' fulfils both parts of the cryptic clue perfectly, as far as I can see.

(I'm offering this explanation solely because an earlier cryptic-clue answer in this new category seemed to require such an explanation, too.)

[Smiffy]

Opera (op is the usual cryptic shorthand for work and era is a period)

[Quizmonster]

Surely, Smiffy, in any 3-element cryptic clue constructed along the lines you suggest, two of the elements together - ie 'op' and 'era' - must mean the third element. However, 'opera' does not mean 'theatrical'.

An opera might well be a 'theatrical work', but you've already used 'work' in the fabric of your answer. I don't think you can have it both ways!

If it turns out that 'opera' is correct, then it was a pretty sloppy clue, I'd say. I tackled it as a 2-element clue.

[firefly]

But Quizmonster in cryptic crosswords things don't have to be exact, just enough to show the answer. It certainly makes more sense than 'stage' or 'drama'

[Quizmonster]

Dear Firefly, I've been doing the 'Times' crossword virtually daily for over 40 years and I complete the 'AZED' in 'The Observer' every Sunday, too. (Have a look at it one day.) I don't really need to have cryptic clues explained to me!

An explanation I would appreciate is why you feel 'opera', which doesn't actually fit the clue in its entirety, is better than 'stage' which does.

Of course, if the letters of 'opera' fit into neighbouring answers in the crossword, then clearly that is what the compiler intended. However, if so, I can only repeat my earlier point...that it makes for a very loose clue.

[Smiffy]

Quizmonster, you may well be right about 'stage', I merely offer 'opera' as a suggestion. I don't think either of them are particularly good answers, but don't think that it's a particularly good clue. Like you I have been doing cryptic crosswords for over 40 years and I don't think the clues are as good as when I were a gal. They don't hang together half the time. Where are the deceptively simple, but clever, clues of yesteryear? . Sorry, about that, I just got a bit nostalgic there.

[Smiffy]

And what happened to my formatting in my last submission? I put in a rant on and a rant off in those triangle bracket thingies (although it was only a rant-ette) and they vanished.

[Quizmonster]

Dear Smiffy, Please don't imagine I was trying to have a go at you!

'Opera', on the op+era basis on which you reached it, is a perfectly valid response, fitting all the rules I've ever known re cryptic clue construction. It just didn't - at least, so it seems to me - hang together with the remaining element...'theatrical'. In exactly the same way, had you linked 'theatrical' and 'work' and decided 'opera' fitted the bill, I'd have been equally happy until I asked myself: "Does that mean 'period'?"

There are, as you say, many clues which fall short of the highest standards - even in the 'Times' - and I've got a notion we've found ourselves dealing with one here! Cheers

[mjackson]

stagelife?

[NJ]

To play devils advocate could you not lay the same charge at "stage", a period yes but a theatrical work? A stage is not a theatrical work but merely a place to perform one. Opera however is theatrical and a composition of work & period (op & era) ;) but I'm a new one to this cryptic stuff, does anyone know what the answer was supposed to be?