Alternative Energy Source

[Panic Button]

I've got the solution.

Rent a bit of land near the equator, near to the sea, and build a solar powerstation or two.

Use the energy to split water into hydrogen and xygen. Release the oxygen to help the environment.

Compress the hydrogen and transport it by sea.

Manufacture vehicles which run on hydrogen, then as they drive they take oxygen from the atmosphere and give out water in the exhaust.

OK so we have a bit of problem finding suitable land in a politically stable area, but a good old fashioned invasion could sort that out.

[MrsT]

so you've never studied physics/chemistry then?

[fo3nix]

You fail to account for the fact that hydrogen is extremely explosive.

So, either come up with a better way of storing it, or just not use hydrogen at all.

Hydrogen is being marketed by the oil companies because then they can step in and start the distribution of that too, once petrol becomes less popular.

However, the answer is electricity. The reason it isn't popular yet is because oil companies are doing their best to stop it -- there is no distribution market to grab, because it's already here -- the electricity to your home.

Make electricity however you like. Personally I like the idea of a large array of solar panals near the Sahara or Chile, then take advantage of the upper atmosphere for transport (Tesla played with this a bit).

Then, use cars etc. that run off this electricity. Cars that accelerate faster than modern cars, and for 60 miles + have already been built, with high top speeds (far exceeding the legal speed limits). Their weakness currently is storing enough electricity in batteries to go for very long journeys. But for the average daily commute, they're fine.

Then instead of petrol stations, use electricity stations. Large batteries underground, with a solar panel array on the roof. Make the electron transfer fast enough, and you've got yourself a good way to recharge on longer journeys.

Many, many things have to be solved first though. But electricity is going to be the end product.

[Abdulmajid]

I propose that you build a huge dynamo outside a prison and get all the prisoners to cycle everyday and power the dynamo. The stored energy can then be used by the local community of the prison.


PS I know nothing of physics, can this work?

[jake-the-peg]

Blimey fo3nix I don't know where to start taking that little lot apart!

Let's start with the solar panels bit, solar pannels are very very expensive to create electricity from directly. That's why there are no solar power stations with solar panels.

There is this one http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6616651.st m
but with all that building and investment it produces 11MW.

Lets move on to electric cars. As we all know the problem is the weight of the batteries, their limited lifespan and recharging them.

But power stations with solar panels on the roof? - I refer you to my earlier point about the efficiency of solar cells and then ask you exactly how long you think it takes to recharge an electric car'ss battery.

Yes as city runabout's they'll have a part to play but I'm sorry to replace what we have now you need a real fuel and that's probably going to be hydrogen.

Nuclear Fusion is frankly the only large scale realistic alternative as a core energy source, Yes I know it's 40 years away but it's going to take us a while to sort out the problems with hydrogen and phase out petrol and diesel.

But before you jump on the solar-electric bandwagon you really have to do the maths because they simply don't add up!

[newtron]

I just recently saw a presentation by a world class scientist about the possibility of injecting CO2 that is being produced by existing electric plants into brine aquifers deep beneath the earth's surface. As a side note, he suggested then to use electricity for transportation. This would basically eliminate CO2 production by the two dominant sources, electricity production and transportation. Obviously, there are many factors to consider before we actually begin injecting CO2 into the subsurface, but there is presently a lot of research being done on this subject. At this point in time it is being considered as a real option in the efforts of decreasing CO2 emissions in the near future.

[jake-the-peg]

This is known as CO2 sequestration.

The Americans are big proponants of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CO2_sequestration

The idea is that your power stations can continue to run on coal and just catch the CO2

Obvious problems are that it is really only relevant for power stations and the geology won't always be suitable where you want to build a power station.

It's also not going to solve the peak oil problem where we're using oil faster than we're finding and extractng it.

However the medium term solution is likely to be a patchwork of different technologies and this might be one of them.

[newtron]

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_an d_storage

http://www.ees.nmt.edu/Seminars/Abstract020408 _celia.html


Actually, if we burn coal to produce electricity, and if transportation is primarily electric, then the use of oil for transportation should also decrease. You are right Jake, the solution to the problem will be a mix of several different technologies. One thing for certain is that significantly reducing CO2 emissions is no small task.

[jake-the-peg]

I don't think transportation can be primarilly electric for the reasons above.

Not unless someone can turn high temperature superconductors into useful devices and they've been sitting around for 20 years as no more than an oddity.

Still if you feel smart and fancy being richer than Bill Gates that's where you need to look!

[Panic Button]

I saw an item TV the other day about a Frenchman, who knows, a bit as he used to be a big cheese in a Formula 1 team. He proposes city cars that run on compressed air, and had a prototype.

A carbon fibre air tank powers a motor, and it only takes 3 minutes attached to an air compressor to fill up. Far better than an electric car which takes several hours, and without the weight and space taking battery problems..

Now all we need is an eco friendly way to get the electricity to where it is needed.. I still stand by my idea of power stations in the tropics, not with photoelectric cells, but huge mirrors catching the radiated heat to run steam turbines.

All we need then is a way to get the electricity to where it is needed. Perhaps liquified hydrogen under pressure is not the best idea, but it could work with only the occasional massive catastrophe.

[Teddio]

Abdul's idea is a great one! Assuming each criminal can generate 200Watts of electrical power I calculate we would need only 300 million criminals to generate the UK's 60 Gigawatt electrical power need.

[beso]

The criminal idea could probably work n the USA. One in fifty of them is in jail. Mostly for drug offences.

Just feed them up on speed during peak periods.

[beso]

For some reason the scientifically naive always think that by introducing another step between electricity and the load the process will improve.

The facts are that electrolysis and compressing air are both very very inefficient. Just put the solar energy in a battery and run the car on electricity.

Solar concentrators based on mirrors only work in clear skies leaving our much of the tropics. This having been said there is more than enough desert to run the whole world with this technology. Costs more than burning stuff but its day will come.

We are just stuck in the combustion rut that humanity fell into before we even learnt to talk.

[aka pixi]

I'm reading a book where the world is powered by almost free energy. Satellites get the energy from the sun then beam it to power stations on earth as microwaves. Of course it was explained better than that but it went way over my head lol

[beso]

Jake is well off the mark. Superconductors are utterly irrelevant to electric vehicle technology. Electric motors are already very efficient. The weight of batteries to achieve a greater range is the only remaining problem with electric vehicles.

Electric cars should be charged overnight on off peak power instead of the absolutely ridiculous waste where electricity is used to heat water.

In fact some researches think electric car batteries are a solution to the problem of carrying peak grid loads. The car being charged can be used to provide power when required and charged when there is oversupply of power.

However it might be sobering to realise there is not sufficient lead in the world to provide everyone with an ordinary car battery each. Other technologies will probably suffer similar shortages.

[CT]

Did anyone read the recent New Scientist with the Solar power special report. It was quite informative and would answer a good number of the questions posted in this thread.