The Listener

[AB Editor]

Hi,

I have received an email from a guy associated with The Listener crossword.

The email itself is in reference to the stats which I know most of you are well aware of as you have referred to your own individual positions in the past.

I am going to post the email here later this afternoon.

However, before I do I would like to know your opinion -

Do you feel there are any issues related to people posting answers for The Listener crossword before the submission deadline?

Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
AB Ed

[squarebear]

Then if you ban this crossword, you should ban them all and might as well close the quizzes & puzzles section down.

The fact that "Mr Green" keeps a manual record of the entrants is neither here nor there. If this manual work is taking 5-6 hours a day, I suggest he gets a computer.

[kayakamina]

I suppose a similar case could be made for the EV crossword which, while not having the prestige of The Listener, is on occasion harder to complete.

Statistics are also being compiled by our own Midazolam-admittedly not countrywide.

[rabet]

I think Quizmonkey is being a trifle disingenuous when he (she?) dismisses the notion that the Listener carries any kind of intellectual cachet. My wife has a degree in Education and a Master's in French linguistics, yet she never ceases to be amazed that there are people walking the earth who are capable of solving it.

I recall that many years ago (when the puzzle was actually in "The Listener"), a contributor to the Letters page went so far as to wonder whether the whole thing might be an elaborate hoax (rather along the lines of "Mornington Crescent") as in his whole life he had never met anyone who could understand the preamble, let alone solve the puzzle.

Of course, the laborious and arcane business of compiling the statistics confers a further aura of uniqueness and exclusivity, whether intended or not.

Finally, a question. I have a good friend who has recently taken up the hobby of entering "difficult" prize crosswords. Occasionally he asks for my help with a clue. What should I do? Come over all po-faced and tell him he is on his own? Bear in mind that he has been a great support to me in the past over matters far more important than a crossword. (Quizmonkey, you'll be happy to hear that he has yet attempted the Listener!)

[rabet]

Sorry, last line, "not yet".

[bednobs]

does no-one else read that email sent in with a degree of incredulity?
does noone elses mind think "god, there are some strange people out there"
How will banning discussion of a CROSSWORD (lets remember people, this is just a crssword) on ONE website help "maintain integrity" or whatever other guff someone wants to call it?
honestly, surely people have something better to do than spend 40 odd hours a week compling statistics for fun? Does he not have a job? if he is able to do the above, why cant his mind be put toward some sort of gainful employment? Perhaps a course in microsoft excell might be a better use of his time?

[squarebear]

"Widely regarded as the most prestigious in the world"?!

Sounds a bit of a tool to be honest.

[rabet]

I would be interested to learn how many contributors to this discussion have ever solved a Listener crossword. Of course, it could be argued that this is a disagreement on a point of principle and detailed knowledge of the crossword is not relevant.

[rabet]

With regard to the email ~ can we be told who this "guy" is, and exactly how he is "associated" with the crossword?

[bednobs]

I for one have never heard of it till i looked at this thread, but it still leaves me floundering. We are, after all, talking about a crossword are we not? perhaps one might say that because i know nothing about the subject i shouldn't comment but if we were restriced to only commenting on issues we had personal experiences off, the only posters would be ethel, buenchico and QM on the whole of AB!

TBH, i think the email seemed rather big headed, and left me just feeling immensley sorry fo thr poor sap whose lifes work is to complie these figures. He/she is swimming uphill against a tide of water cming the other way. Information is universal in a way it has never been before. i personally cant see the satisfaction in completelting a crossword where you have absolutely no idea why the answer is what it is, which is surely what must happen? the clues must be very obscure, and by getting it right, the only thing it proves is you have a similar way of thinking about things as the complier

[squarebear]

I have never attempted it but I don't see that that matters. It is still just a prize crossword and if you ban people from answering it, you should also ban EVERY other prize competition including newspaper crosswords, magazine competitions and charity quizzes.

[JMR27]

I do the Listener Crossword (correction: I attempt it, I don't always finish it) but would never dream of seeking help. I can see both points of view but feel that this particular crossword is different from the other prize crosswords and shouldn't be discussed on AB. What's wrong with keeping an old tradition? (Lord knows this Labour government has wiped out most others). judy

[Quizmonkey]

Rabet - I never said that! Obviously the L carries an intellectual cachet but I was saying that that was not what made it different or deserving of special treatment. Unfortunately this thread has been taken over (as always) by people who have never solved a Listener, will never, are therefore unaffected by any decision made, but still insist on making irrelevant facile comments and even insulting JG.

[podger123]

"What's the point "we are asked by The Listener stats man?
Well, I feel exactly the same about the quizzes and xwords that I do and used to do. AB has ruined them all. I only see it as cheating and I think AB should be for NON prize contests only like funtrivia used to be.
The GBQ proprieter also asks his entrants not to ask on AB. Perhaps all the Listener solvers should write to the paper to protest about squarebear & co.
Many of the ABers are either ignorant or vindictive because they regularly give wrong answers.
I would suggest not having the Quizzes and Puzzles section at all might solve the problem.So go on squarebear call me a troll again if you like. Whatever that means.

[rabet]

POdger, as squarebear has already made it clear that he/she does not do the puzzle and therefore presumably never gives answers to others, I don't see what there would be to complain to The Times about.

I still don't see why an exception should be made for the Listener. The argument for banning discussion of it seems to be based on the effect of such discussion on the wholly voluntary activities of one person, viz Mr Green.

There is the further point that many of the other competitions openly discussed on AB offer valuable prizes, e.g. the Sunday Express �1000 crossword, but few people seem to object to answers to them being freely bandied about.

My view is that if you veto discussing the Listener then you must do the same for ALL crosswords and competitions where prizes are on offer.

As has already been stated, if this were to be implemented
this section of AB would lose most of its content.

It seems that Ed is in a cleft stick here.

[shaneystar2]

I think that if you are going to discriminate over one crossword just because someone takes it upon themselves to compile a load of old statistics then you may as well shut Q&P down altogether .
If I were to be a Listener afficionado I would like to think I had some of the prestigious integrity that they all seem to think they have and not have to resort to AB .
If they are all so damn clever what are they doing here in the first place ?
It's an arduous enough task just to get through life as it is today let alone blow a load of hot air about a ruddy crossword or quiz .
I thought these sort of things were for fun and a bit of brain fodder but it seems they are now of national importance.Far more important than our armed forces being killed in Iraq...
Jesus Wept ....

[rabet]

You tell'em, Dumpling!

[shaneystar2]

Cheek ! I'll have you know my dumplings are very tasty !

[rabet]

It takes one to know one! (Dumplings, I mean.)

Sorry, classic case of hijacking a thread ~ but it was getting rather heated.

[JUNKMAN]

Well said shaneystar2 - and I'm sure your dumplings are lovely :-)

[shaneystar2]

Precisely rabet ....far more important things in life to worry about .If men in bow ties find it so exciting to compile statistics and have a jolly boys outing every year with a dinner that seems to be an exclusive closed shop for clever clogs then let them get on with it .
And let them leave others alone to enjoy what is a harmless pastime .