Listener Crossword 4014: Without Bars by Elgin

[midazolam]

Hope everyone had a nice Xmas. Here is the link for Elgin's Listener Crossword. Last of a very enjoyable cruciverbal year from the Listener team

[Clamzy]

Many thanks for the link midazolam. Let's hope it lives up to it's billing.

[cruciverbali]

Thanks midazolam, hope you are having a Great time too, and All the Very Best for 2009 !

C

[mad max]

Many thanks for link

[AHearer]

Thanks for the link, midazolam. A nice touch of Christmas spirit, though even with what looks like a satisfactorily filled grid I'm not one hundred percent convinced I've interpreted the actions correclty. I'm going to put it on one side and have another look later.

[Walterloo]

My feelings too, AHearer. I've never read and re-read a preamble as much as this one. I think, and only think, I've done alright but not convinced yet. Deathly quiet thread about this puzzle, too. Either everyone's been rendered senseless from too much Christmasness or this puzzle's proving to be a beast.

[Cruncher]

I think it's a question of doing what it says on the tin. It all seems to fit together very nicely. Bit of a relief after CluelessJoe's dire warnings!

Happy New Year to you all!

[Walterloo]

Yes, you're right, Cruncher. After another look I'm very happy with not only how the puzzle unfolded (crammed with loads to unravel) but also how it ended. Although the online version and thus my printed copy, for me anyway, seemed to have an ostensibly strategic collection of symmetrically placed bold lines, in a sort of tartan pattern, which led me misleadingly along a Scottish angle and trying to decipher hidden messages within them! What a berk.
But, anyway, me like it lots.

[Cruncher]

I got distracted by the lines too. I don't think they appear in the printed version although I found them helpful at the end to confirm the symmetry of the grid

[Clamzy]

Well Walterloo I think the usual seasonal distractions maybe account for the quiet response to this week's puzzle. There are maybe a half dozen of our number who can solve a Listener on the first day but, including yours truly, many more who take a little longer. I normally post off the average puzzle on the Monday, but difficult ones somewhat later. I would class this one as about average and will post tomorrow.
I'm still unsure about the meaning of returning to the first subsequent action. How can the first be subsequent?

[Walterloo]

Well, Clamzy, I hope my reasoning is the same as yours, but my understanding of the wording in the preamble is this: Actions 1 and 2 are found in the grid, actions 3, 4 and 5 are then discovered once the theme is known. The second subsequent action is number 4 and the final state is after number 3 !
That's probably obvious to some but I'm going to hang on to my envelope for just a little while longer. . .

[Clamzy]

Many thanks Walterloo. So the "subsequent actions" are 3,4,and 5 - that makes more sense of the 2nd subsequent etc. I shall now post my entry with more confidence:-)

[Cruncher]

I was encouraged to find that my completed grid satisfied the requirement of 180� symmetry so that was good enough for me. Off to the postbox!

[AHearer]

It's also quite neat that the positioning of what satisfies the second subsequent action relative to the last letter of 39a is consistent with the third subsequent action (if one subdivides the last word thereof).

[starwalker]

I too have a completed symmetrical grid. However, I cannot shake myself of the thought that I have missed something. My doubts all revolve around "Solvers must use the letters . . . to return to the state..." Given the deadline, I'll save my walk to the postbox for a little while longer.

[Cruncher]

starwalker - I'd suggest a little study of the letters that have been used to fill the gaps in the four special clues

[IntoTheBlue]

A very clever offering from Elgin which I enjoyed a great deal. (I've just seen the meaning behind the title which doesn't enter the Xmas spirits !) I was held up for a while as I couldn't find the seventh unclued entry until I re-read the preamble and realised 1 square had 2 letters in it.

I think we have been spoilt in the last few weeks with the continued brilliance of the puzzles, I've been solving the Listener for about 4 years now and I can't remember a better year.

All that remains is to wish all the readers of this board a very happy New Year and to look forward to another years puzzles...

[starwalker]

Thanks Crucher, I have it now. As is usually the case when I get stuck it comes down to self-imposed constraints - not that I would want to take anything away from the quality of the puzzle.

[starwalker]

Sorry - Cruncher !

[AHearer]

Sorry, I meant it's also quite neat that the positioning of what satisfies the first subsequent action relative to the last letter of 39a is consistent with the third subsequent action (if one subdivides the last word thereof).

[thebuzz999]

Question: answer to clue 1: ___ED or ____ER? Why?