Toilet Signs

[Benjiman]

On the door of a public toilet it usually says Mens or Womens. My grammer isn't great but shouldn't there be an apostrophe between the n and s since the toilets are belonging to this gender?

So the signs should read Men's and Women's

Cheers

Ben

[Buenchico]

As you indicate, if the 's' is present it should be preceded by a 'possessive' apostrophe.

However the majority of signs which I've encountered simply announce the genders for which the facilities are designated, i.e. 'Men' or 'Women', without appending an 's' to those genders.

Chris

[Thakey]

It is quite unusual to see MENS or WOMENS on 'public' toilets -sometime in pubs etc they may do this to generate some interest in the mistake. (trying to be funny!) but usually the 's' is dropped. Then again in the same breath I wonder about GENTS which has been totally accepted as a correct sign but basically is an abbreviation so should have an apostrophe. So strictly it should say Gentlemen's toilet , the 's' indicatiing that it belongs to the Gentlemen , (which of course it doesn't as it is a 'public' toilet.)
If it helps the Spanish signs for 'Gents' were totally
confusing at first but we learn from our mistakes!
I tried to help but found that the more I it tried the less I could could give ther right reason, but MENS and WOMENS are not correct! Adios!
correct

[Benjiman]

Thanks!!

[TCL-MUMPING]

In the online version of Chambers Dictionary (there should be an apostrophe after Chambers by the way but there isn't) there is no apostrophe in gents or ladies in relation to public toilets.

[scotman]

TCL
You may find that 'Chambers' is using the nominative case which does not use the apostrophe. I tis simailar to the place St Andrews in Scotland which has no apostrophe and it never belonged to said person. I am sure there are many other examples

[TCL-MUMPING]

When the dictionary was first published, its title was "Chambers's Twentieth Century Dictionary"( I would not have added the extra "s" as it is a plural word.)

[scotman]

TCL
I was not aware of the change of style. I think there is some convention about 's on the end of a word ending in s depending on the number of syllables. I also would not ever have put one there.
I think the nominative case is one of grammar's more recent developments probably to account for the apparent error/confusion in place names etc

[factor-fiction]

I can see the case for Chambers in Chambers Dictionary not requiring an apostrophe for the reason given by scotman- just as Google Dictionary isn't written Google's Dictionary and Barclays Bank has no apostrophe.

Regarding St Andrews, however, if St Andrews is not a possessive does that mean there was more than one Saint called Andrew? Maybe it should be Saints Andrew.

[ajmmac]

i have never seen toilets named mens or womens--even with the apstrophe--to include the apostrophe would imply the toilets are "owned by" or "of" men or women when in fact the names on the toilets indicate they are for the use of the said gender--that being so neither mens nor womens with or witout apostrophes would make any sense--cheers

[factor-fiction]

Err, Richardjhoop, I suggest your interpretation of saxon genitives and the possessive for men and women are incorrect. The words are already plural so the possessives are men's and women's.

[Poppetchops]

I have always believed that without the apostrophe is correct, also as in doctors note, childrens playground etc. There is no element of possession, only description.