ChatterBank0 min ago
Neighbours have got a decorator in and we havent agreed yet
Long story - which I will cut very short... we have done some extensive building work - had a Party Wall Agreement drawn up with the neighbours. Some minor (and I mean really minor) damage was caused to their property which we are liable to put right. We have done the work - except for the decorative stuff - one room needs new wall paper and some tiny cracks need sealant to fill them.
The Surveyor has been liasing between us all as they havent been very co-operative - even tho we have been trying to make things right.
The next step was meant to be - they get 3 decorator quotes - submit to us and between us we agree a fair price and they contract someone to do the work.
They have got the quotes but not given them to us - and the surveyor has been chasing them up for 6 weeks now asking for the copies of the quotes. They had initially added a load of extra work to it that wasnt meant to be paid for by us.
NOW - today they have got decorators in doing work there - so not only do I now know how much its costing me - but we havent agreed a price either.
Where do I stand now - do I have to pay this guy's quote or can I argue - that they havent followed the rules and so I can dispute it if its too expensive???
Please help!
The Surveyor has been liasing between us all as they havent been very co-operative - even tho we have been trying to make things right.
The next step was meant to be - they get 3 decorator quotes - submit to us and between us we agree a fair price and they contract someone to do the work.
They have got the quotes but not given them to us - and the surveyor has been chasing them up for 6 weeks now asking for the copies of the quotes. They had initially added a load of extra work to it that wasnt meant to be paid for by us.
NOW - today they have got decorators in doing work there - so not only do I now know how much its costing me - but we havent agreed a price either.
Where do I stand now - do I have to pay this guy's quote or can I argue - that they havent followed the rules and so I can dispute it if its too expensive???
Please help!
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Exactly Zacmaster... I know that we have caused them some upset - they are quite elderly.. but not stupid!!! - and we have never denied it is down to us to put it right.
They insisted that they get to use their own decorators - and not that we do it. So we said fine but we first need to see the quotes. They showed the surveyor one quote (I have asked for two!) and it was about �1800 but inlcuded a whole load of other work.
I still want to see the quotes they have obtained - as I think they are trying to pull a swift one on us.
They have already wasted �1000 of our money by changing their minds on things and changing dates of when other work could be done and we had hired a whole load of equipment that had to go back unused - but we had to still pay for it!
So I am really hoping that I can get out of paying them any money at all!
They are very old - but not stupid.. and they seem to think they can use their age as an excuse to forget things and be mean - I even offered to pay for them to go on a holiday while the work was being done!!!!
They insisted that they get to use their own decorators - and not that we do it. So we said fine but we first need to see the quotes. They showed the surveyor one quote (I have asked for two!) and it was about �1800 but inlcuded a whole load of other work.
I still want to see the quotes they have obtained - as I think they are trying to pull a swift one on us.
They have already wasted �1000 of our money by changing their minds on things and changing dates of when other work could be done and we had hired a whole load of equipment that had to go back unused - but we had to still pay for it!
So I am really hoping that I can get out of paying them any money at all!
They are very old - but not stupid.. and they seem to think they can use their age as an excuse to forget things and be mean - I even offered to pay for them to go on a holiday while the work was being done!!!!
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The agreement in writing Carrust - was as stated in my post. They have to obtain 3 deco quotes and we then agree a price that we have to pay to them BEFORE the work is contracted and carried out.
If a decorator charges about �200 per day - I can hand on heart say that there is NOT 2 weeks work there for our part of the bill... how long does it take to wallpaper an average sized bedroom? A day??? 2 days at most???
The rest of the work was painting of one ceiling (white emulsion) and filling of some small cracks in various rooms with acrylic sealant.
Everything has been put in writing so they know what they were supposed to do - my problem is that isnt what they have then gone and done.
How can we agree to pay a price now???? Based on what???
If a decorator charges about �200 per day - I can hand on heart say that there is NOT 2 weeks work there for our part of the bill... how long does it take to wallpaper an average sized bedroom? A day??? 2 days at most???
The rest of the work was painting of one ceiling (white emulsion) and filling of some small cracks in various rooms with acrylic sealant.
Everything has been put in writing so they know what they were supposed to do - my problem is that isnt what they have then gone and done.
How can we agree to pay a price now???? Based on what???
Oh by the way Carrust - we cottoned onto them quite early on and could see that things had the potential to turn very nasty as they were wasting a lot of time - ignoring instructions and being quote unco-operative.. so we put EVERYTHING in writing to them EVERY time anything is agreed.
I have a 30 page document of all dates and emails and letter sent between us all...
I have asked for things in writing from them and never got ANY reponses. and they have wasted my money asking the surveyor to make numerous unecessary visits to just repeat what he told them the week before!
They even tried to STOP us going in and putting the house right again!!!
I have a 30 page document of all dates and emails and letter sent between us all...
I have asked for things in writing from them and never got ANY reponses. and they have wasted my money asking the surveyor to make numerous unecessary visits to just repeat what he told them the week before!
They even tried to STOP us going in and putting the house right again!!!
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I dont expect he will know as its likely they wont have told him the full story!
They were provided with a list of what work has to be quoted on.. then the one quote they showed the Surveyor apparently included other work not deemed ncessary - so they were supposed to be getting the quote revised to just the list we all agreed on.
I and the Surveyor have been chasing them for the copy of this quote for 7 weeks now - and each time she says she will get straight onto it and it never appears.
Now there is a decorator in there today doing work to the house!!!
Where do we stand?
At what point can we walk away from this all due to their constant unreasonable behaviour?????
Its just impossible to agree anything with them.
She didnt even want to get 2 decorators quotes - so I offered to do it - she said "we arent going to rip you off - we arent going to choose an expensive decorator"
Well �1800 sounds darn expensive for the works to be done!!!
They were provided with a list of what work has to be quoted on.. then the one quote they showed the Surveyor apparently included other work not deemed ncessary - so they were supposed to be getting the quote revised to just the list we all agreed on.
I and the Surveyor have been chasing them for the copy of this quote for 7 weeks now - and each time she says she will get straight onto it and it never appears.
Now there is a decorator in there today doing work to the house!!!
Where do we stand?
At what point can we walk away from this all due to their constant unreasonable behaviour?????
Its just impossible to agree anything with them.
She didnt even want to get 2 decorators quotes - so I offered to do it - she said "we arent going to rip you off - we arent going to choose an expensive decorator"
Well �1800 sounds darn expensive for the works to be done!!!
Hi Parafin: It has all been face to face with them... with me and my Husband going round there - though they now refuse to talk to me. The Surveyor has been face to face the whole time.. All meetings then confirmed in writing with what was agreed as we could all see this getting nasty. They even hired a scary legal activist woman - who then stopped acting for them and has sided with me!!!
Zacmaster: they were asked whether their wallpaper was a particular designer brand and whether it was expensive and infront of witnesses said no. Though I totally accept that they should be allowed to choose one that they like!
Dont think they would have quoted for emulsioning all ceilings as this was not what was specified.
Works on the schedule are in next post... just copying and pasting from word now...
Zacmaster: they were asked whether their wallpaper was a particular designer brand and whether it was expensive and infront of witnesses said no. Though I totally accept that they should be allowed to choose one that they like!
Dont think they would have quoted for emulsioning all ceilings as this was not what was specified.
Works on the schedule are in next post... just copying and pasting from word now...
Works Schedule taken from an Independent Structural Engineer
Proposed works to be carried out by third party decorator:
We need to meet to discuss the list below and agree to obtain a number of quotations BEFORE these works commence. Please advise when you are available to discuss.
Bathroom
� Rake out minor crack along internal wall / floor junction and make good with acrylic sealant.
Bedroom
� There is also a minor area of torn paper below a coving in the bedroom wall adjacent to the door to the bathroom. It is suggested that this torn area is made good as best possible and the adjacent coving repainted.
Hall Way by Kitchen / Lounge Entrance
� There is cracking along the ceiling / timber panel above the door to the kitchen which requires raking out and infilling with acrylic sealant.
� A vertical crack at a joint in the wallpaper above the door to the lounge needs carefully raking out and refilling and re-pointing to match the wall paper colour.
� A crack in the coving and in the adjacent ceiling above the door to the lounge requires raking out and making good with plaster and then the local length of coving and ceiling painted.
Lounge Wall
� There is a crack over the door to the hallway which requires a repair by breaking out the plaster to allow a strip of expanded metal lathing to be fixed to the wall surface and the area re-plastered. The crack in the coving needs carefully cutting out to allow a plaster repair to match the existing profile.
� The two wall areas either side of the chimney will require repapering to the owners requirements and the coving section repainted in both panels.
Loft Studio
� There is a minor crack running alongside the projecting timber hip member in the ceiling which may not be attributed to the building movement but to avoid any argument I
Proposed works to be carried out by third party decorator:
We need to meet to discuss the list below and agree to obtain a number of quotations BEFORE these works commence. Please advise when you are available to discuss.
Bathroom
� Rake out minor crack along internal wall / floor junction and make good with acrylic sealant.
Bedroom
� There is also a minor area of torn paper below a coving in the bedroom wall adjacent to the door to the bathroom. It is suggested that this torn area is made good as best possible and the adjacent coving repainted.
Hall Way by Kitchen / Lounge Entrance
� There is cracking along the ceiling / timber panel above the door to the kitchen which requires raking out and infilling with acrylic sealant.
� A vertical crack at a joint in the wallpaper above the door to the lounge needs carefully raking out and refilling and re-pointing to match the wall paper colour.
� A crack in the coving and in the adjacent ceiling above the door to the lounge requires raking out and making good with plaster and then the local length of coving and ceiling painted.
Lounge Wall
� There is a crack over the door to the hallway which requires a repair by breaking out the plaster to allow a strip of expanded metal lathing to be fixed to the wall surface and the area re-plastered. The crack in the coving needs carefully cutting out to allow a plaster repair to match the existing profile.
� The two wall areas either side of the chimney will require repapering to the owners requirements and the coving section repainted in both panels.
Loft Studio
� There is a minor crack running alongside the projecting timber hip member in the ceiling which may not be attributed to the building movement but to avoid any argument I
Looks as though they've agreed to something that's not possible to make a reasonable job of.
I think the decorator has come in & said. I'll do the job, but all the filling & patch painting will stand-out like a sore thumb....which it will.
eg.
� A vertical crack at a joint in the wallpaper above the door to the lounge needs carefully raking out and refilling and re-pointing to match the wall paper colour.
How can you match wallpaper with paint, or as the quote says repoint.
I think the decorator has come in & said. I'll do the job, but all the filling & patch painting will stand-out like a sore thumb....which it will.
eg.
� A vertical crack at a joint in the wallpaper above the door to the lounge needs carefully raking out and refilling and re-pointing to match the wall paper colour.
How can you match wallpaper with paint, or as the quote says repoint.
Sorry Carrust - you misunderstand me.. the list of works is from the Engineers report as to what is required from the decorator.
The Engineer took into consideration the age and interior of the property and deemed it unfair to redecorate an entire hallway for the sake of one small crack.
The Engineer was completely independent - and we all agreed to abide by his report. Which for own own part we have.
They were trying to get their entire house repainted (as its in need of updating) and then selling it. This ruse obviously didnt work! The thing is we have been cooperative all the way and met every demand they have made - but now I am sick of it!
They have spread lies about us and told other neighbours we have got to rebuild their house etc etc.... and they dont seem to stick to the rules that we all set out in the beginning!!!
Can I get away with not paying them any money???
The Engineer took into consideration the age and interior of the property and deemed it unfair to redecorate an entire hallway for the sake of one small crack.
The Engineer was completely independent - and we all agreed to abide by his report. Which for own own part we have.
They were trying to get their entire house repainted (as its in need of updating) and then selling it. This ruse obviously didnt work! The thing is we have been cooperative all the way and met every demand they have made - but now I am sick of it!
They have spread lies about us and told other neighbours we have got to rebuild their house etc etc.... and they dont seem to stick to the rules that we all set out in the beginning!!!
Can I get away with not paying them any money???
If all else fails, get the number of the decorator off his van, & have a chat with him. He probably doesn't know whats going on, & is in danger of not being paid.
BTW, I'm a decorator, & have been in situations like this one. This is the reason I don't do insurance jobs any more...they're a blOOdy mine field.
BTW, I'm a decorator, & have been in situations like this one. This is the reason I don't do insurance jobs any more...they're a blOOdy mine field.
Thanks for your help Carrust - I certainly wouldnt imagine he is aware that we are paying him.. and not them.. though the list of works issued was on a typed sheet and the wording may have led him to ask some questions as to where it came from.
They were not meant to instruct anyone yet to do the work - and we dont pay him direct we pay them and so they are responsible for paying him....
However - like I said.. I want back the �1000 they have wasted by messing me around and so will be deducting this from what we owe them...
They are old and rich with no kids so assume they have money to pay what should be a relatively small bill!
Thing is - how can I now ask to get my own quote when the works all been done???
They were not meant to instruct anyone yet to do the work - and we dont pay him direct we pay them and so they are responsible for paying him....
However - like I said.. I want back the �1000 they have wasted by messing me around and so will be deducting this from what we owe them...
They are old and rich with no kids so assume they have money to pay what should be a relatively small bill!
Thing is - how can I now ask to get my own quote when the works all been done???
Hmmm... Carrust - they have been trying it on a bit.... I'll flag it up with the Surveyor in the morning and get him to call and ask what on earth they think they are doing...
Will get his number off van too to see what he has been told.
As a deco yourself - if you were told.. the work is for our house - but the neighbours are paying - would you ask to see some kind of proof before starting... It isnt exactly normal...
Where do I stand if he is really expensive though...
Do I have to pay his rate or can I dispute it?
Will get his number off van too to see what he has been told.
As a deco yourself - if you were told.. the work is for our house - but the neighbours are paying - would you ask to see some kind of proof before starting... It isnt exactly normal...
Where do I stand if he is really expensive though...
Do I have to pay his rate or can I dispute it?
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