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many thanks,mamyalynne, you don't need to look smouse if you don't want to know try and answer them yourself and then look.there are just three more grasscarp and i will do them together as you advise, but one or two are difficult to reproduce from paper to site, i received my copy on tuesday and i have answered all the others, i am retired now and can't put these dingbats down until i get stuck, but i answered 42 of them, whether they are all correct is another matter but i won't be seeking help on those, just three more later, best wishes to all.