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Family & Relationships3 mins ago
i wonder if we'll feel the same way people did when the earth was discovered not to be flat?
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neutrinos faster than the speed of light result http://www.bbc.co.uk/...-environment-15017484 ?
Unexpected findings like this are why experiments like the LHC are so important. However there is a long way to go yet before the findings are accepted but they are definitely interesting.
If confirmed it would be a setback to notion that Neutrinos have a non-zero rest mass because any particle with a non-zero rest mass would acquire infinite mass at the speed of light. This is important because massive Neutrinos are one of the suggestions for the "missing mass" of the Universe.
If the results are shown not be be due to systematic error, I believe it is more likely that the moment of the emmisson of the Nutrinos in the collision is undergoing some kind of time warp and the actual travel is below light speed. That will lead to a new insight about the nature of space and time.
On the other hand note that science only says that massive particles cannot travel at the speed of light and does not rule out travelling faster than the speed of light because there is no theory that goes there.
Logically something can only accelerate to beyond the speed of light by first reaching the speed of light which under current thought rules out faster than light travel. However Quantum Mechanic has never had any respect for everyday logic and perhaps there is a possibiity that the Neutrino is occasionally manifested in such a Quantum state without having to accelerate to that point.
Experiements have already demonstrated that Quantum Mechanics allows an atom to be in two places at once and to both exist and not exist at the same time so we must always be prepared to suspend our notions of rational behaviour in this field.
I look forward to further information about this one.
If confirmed it would be a setback to notion that Neutrinos have a non-zero rest mass because any particle with a non-zero rest mass would acquire infinite mass at the speed of light. This is important because massive Neutrinos are one of the suggestions for the "missing mass" of the Universe.
If the results are shown not be be due to systematic error, I believe it is more likely that the moment of the emmisson of the Nutrinos in the collision is undergoing some kind of time warp and the actual travel is below light speed. That will lead to a new insight about the nature of space and time.
On the other hand note that science only says that massive particles cannot travel at the speed of light and does not rule out travelling faster than the speed of light because there is no theory that goes there.
Logically something can only accelerate to beyond the speed of light by first reaching the speed of light which under current thought rules out faster than light travel. However Quantum Mechanic has never had any respect for everyday logic and perhaps there is a possibiity that the Neutrino is occasionally manifested in such a Quantum state without having to accelerate to that point.
Experiements have already demonstrated that Quantum Mechanics allows an atom to be in two places at once and to both exist and not exist at the same time so we must always be prepared to suspend our notions of rational behaviour in this field.
I look forward to further information about this one.
There seems to be a flaw in your question, Bednobs. There never seems have to be a time when people really believed the Earth to be flat. (There might well have been large elements of the population who never had reason to think about the shape of the planet, because they never ventured more than a miles from their homes, but that's not the same as assuming that the world is flat).
It's a myth that the (roughly) spherical shape of the Earth was discovered in mediaeval times, and that everyone had previously believed it to be flat. The Babylonians, Greeks and Romans all clearly knew that the Earth is a sphere (as did the early Chinese) and there is considerable evidence that other early civilisations (such as the Mayans) were aware of it as well.
It's a myth that the (roughly) spherical shape of the Earth was discovered in mediaeval times, and that everyone had previously believed it to be flat. The Babylonians, Greeks and Romans all clearly knew that the Earth is a sphere (as did the early Chinese) and there is considerable evidence that other early civilisations (such as the Mayans) were aware of it as well.
Thanks for that, Mark, but I have to admit that I still want one of these ;-)
http://www.theflatear...tshirt_royal_blue.jpg
http://www.theflatear...tshirt_royal_blue.jpg
//There seems to be a flaw in your question, Bednobs. There never seems have to be a time when people really believed the Earth to be flat...//
http://en.wikipedia.o...a.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
http://en.wikipedia.o...a.org/wiki/Flat_Earth
A few interesting points here.
Firstly relativity is built on the observation that the speed of light is a fixed speed limit it doesn't demand it.
The maths that falls out of it shows that it is impossible for a massive particle to travel at the speed of light. you get a complex number result if it travels faster which doesn't actually forbid it.
Neutrinos are very interesting in this respect they were thought to have no mass until recently. we now know they do but so far it's too small for anybody to measure it.
*If* (and it's a big if) this measurement is correct Neutrino's are the particles to do it, they switch flavour oscillating between 3 different types. One wonders aout the mechanism of this oscillation and whether this allows them to cross the light barrier.
It would also go some way to stop all the troublemakers trying to pretend the LHC is a failure if it doesn't find the Higgs!
Firstly relativity is built on the observation that the speed of light is a fixed speed limit it doesn't demand it.
The maths that falls out of it shows that it is impossible for a massive particle to travel at the speed of light. you get a complex number result if it travels faster which doesn't actually forbid it.
Neutrinos are very interesting in this respect they were thought to have no mass until recently. we now know they do but so far it's too small for anybody to measure it.
*If* (and it's a big if) this measurement is correct Neutrino's are the particles to do it, they switch flavour oscillating between 3 different types. One wonders aout the mechanism of this oscillation and whether this allows them to cross the light barrier.
It would also go some way to stop all the troublemakers trying to pretend the LHC is a failure if it doesn't find the Higgs!
Cern hasalmost finished eliminationg the energy ranges where the Higgs boson is thought to lie.
This leaves the possibilities that it either does not exist or is in a different energy range from where thought.
They'll start looking at these other energy ranges afterwards.
From a physics point of view finding it where expected is the most boring possibility.
Saying "yep, it's there as expected - three cheers for everybody here have a Nobel "
Finding in somewhere else is probably the best - it would be new Science waiting to be explained with good data to work with.
Not finding it would be the next best thing - totally upsetting 30 years of theory and a renewed effort in explaing if the Higgs is wrong what is right.
The LHC is turning out to be an exquisite instrument to torture theoretical physicists on - It's already done probably fatal damage to super symmetry - who knows what other ideas it'll resign to the dustbin.
Incidently Jim Al Khalili has said he'll eat his boxershorts on live TV if neutrons do travel faster than light!
This leaves the possibilities that it either does not exist or is in a different energy range from where thought.
They'll start looking at these other energy ranges afterwards.
From a physics point of view finding it where expected is the most boring possibility.
Saying "yep, it's there as expected - three cheers for everybody here have a Nobel "
Finding in somewhere else is probably the best - it would be new Science waiting to be explained with good data to work with.
Not finding it would be the next best thing - totally upsetting 30 years of theory and a renewed effort in explaing if the Higgs is wrong what is right.
The LHC is turning out to be an exquisite instrument to torture theoretical physicists on - It's already done probably fatal damage to super symmetry - who knows what other ideas it'll resign to the dustbin.
Incidently Jim Al Khalili has said he'll eat his boxershorts on live TV if neutrons do travel faster than light!
When did men first suspect that the earth was round, not flat? In the days of Christopher Columbus? No. Earlier than that! Irving Robbin wrote: “To believe that one could sail to the East by sailing west, one must also believe that the earth is a sphere. A Genoese sea captain named Christopher Columbus believed this, but he was not alone. He was not alone by many centuries, for as far back as 500 B.C., a Greek scholar, Pythagoras, asserted that the earth was round. A Norwegian textbook written in 1250 not only said the same thing, but also gave the reasons for the varying climates of the earth, the angle of the sun at different times of the year and the prevailing winds. Not all the ancient knowledge had been lost it— was just out of favor for a while.”—The How and Why Wonder Book of Explorations and Discoveries.
Pythagoras lived about 540 to 500 B.C.E. Much earlier, however, the Hebrew prophet Isaiah, of the eighth century B.C.E., indicated that the earth was spherical. He wrote: “There is One [God] who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers.(Isa. 40:22)
Pythagoras lived about 540 to 500 B.C.E. Much earlier, however, the Hebrew prophet Isaiah, of the eighth century B.C.E., indicated that the earth was spherical. He wrote: “There is One [God] who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers.(Isa. 40:22)
Elderman as usual in your desperate attempts to afford credibility to the Bible you have imagined what is not there.
"There is One [God] who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"
A circle is a two dimensional figure. A sphere is three dimensional. Many flat-earthers assumed the flat earth was in the shape of a circle.
"There is One [God] who is dwelling above the circle of the earth"
A circle is a two dimensional figure. A sphere is three dimensional. Many flat-earthers assumed the flat earth was in the shape of a circle.
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