Is There A Biological Basis For Race And For Racial Differences In Behaviour?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/geneticists-condemn-new-book-claiming-there-is-biological-basis-for-racial-differences-in-behaviour-9664928.html

A controversial subject matter maybe, but should this person's conclusions be dismissed completely out of hand, or could there be a certain amount of truth behind his thesis?

[jno]

it's not being "dismissed out of hand", it's being criticised by experts who say he's misunderstood their own findings.

[Old_Geezer]

No time to read the link now but I suspect not so much. Biology will diverge in isolated groups anyway as a result of different genetic modifications arising and getting 'accepted'. Race itself is mostly appearance anyway isn't it ? and I'd put that down to many generations of local (sexual partner) preference. Behaviour is mainly cultural when applied to the group rather than the individual.

[ToraToraTora]

I think there is somthing in this, the Galapogos Islands have demonstrated that the same species can evolve differently when different challenges present themsleves over many generations, so yes it is feasable that humans evolving in different parts of the world would have different evolutionary priorities. There is evidence of this, certain "races" are more tolerant to certain deseases for example. As for evolution halting, yes it has as far as physical characteristics are concerned but I like to think that the dawn of intellegence on humans to a level were societies can be formed and thus make physical issues less fatal is itself a kind of evolutionary "overdrive".

[jomifl]

There is a lot of hypocrisy and PC here. It seems to be OK to say something nice about an alleged 'race' but not something uncomplimentary. You can say race 'x' has a great sense of rhythmn but you cannot say they are stupid. Most of the differences seem to be cultural and it is pretty well impossible to define a 'race' and many bioglists regard the idea of human 'races' as outmoded and 'racist'. People evolved to suit their environments and since there are no distinct environments neatly separated into isolated types then there are in reality no separate races.

[Old_Geezer]

Having now read the link I still stand by my earlier post.

For sure minor biological differences will occur but it seems to me a minimal chance of having a large affect on the way one thinks and thus acts. Peer pressure within ones society would surely be much more influential, it seems to me.

From the little revealed in the article I don't think the case has been proven.

Evolution never halts in any lifeform. But when a species gains the ability to select a breeding partner based on what they look like and what is considered attractive then the ability of a genetic benefit surviving is reduced. Ultimately evolution is allowing the most likely to breed a surviving next generation, nothing more. So if someone was born with eyes in the back of their head, their chance of avoiding predators and staying alive long enough to breed should be greatly enhanced, but most would reject them as a freak, with characteristics they have no desire to pass on to their offspring. What constitutes an advantage is effectively changed.

[atalanta]

Behaviour is always learned. Behaviour cannot possibly be inherited. Only instincts can be inherited, such as fears of strangers - in case they are enemies, or fears of night-time attacks by wild animals or monsters. Children growing up in the 21st century are taught that primitive fears are inappropriate.

[youngmafbog]

Personally I always have doubts on the reason for writing a book; especially if I dont know where the proceeds are going !

[Peter Pedant]

Oh dear, no dear,

If you read the article, the original authors say that along with you, the science writer has radically mistaken what they are saying.

The Anthropological Institute ( anyway some palce in Sarth Efrica) spent sixty years trying to find anatomical difference between white and blacks
and the best they came up with was: bifid C7.

[ the back bit of the seventh cervial vertebra was in two bits and not one)

and nothing else.

[Peter Pedant]

atalanta - not really ...
it used to be called ethology, and then er something else,
and now behavioural ecology - championed by Tinbergen
here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinbergen's_four_questions

I have bought and read Behavioural Ecology
and can't say I was that impressed
BUT

Dogs turn around before settling ( to flatten the grass.... )
Birds migrate ( yup yes they do, no one denies that)
and some mammals migrate ( lemmings but there are questions about that )

and it is pretty easy to show this is inherited

and it is therefore reasonable ( for Tinbergen ) to ask why....
and what the basis is.

another thing completely to ask how much this varies human behaviour.

Yes AOG - I am raising the standard of discussion, so it is very natural for you to ask, what the h+ll is this ? as ever

[jomifl]

PP, what was the definition of 'blacks' or were they the ones with a bifid C7? :o)

[boxtops]

It is a great shame that people are so fearful of being attacked with the race card that we can't always be as honest as we might in previous years. People who have worked across the globe in different countries will say that, for example, the work ethic is different in different parts of the world. Is that cultural, or genetic, or circumstantial, or what?

[Peter Pedant]

Jomifl - I dont think the rooineks had any difficulty in identifying Blacks ( everyone was classified back then )
and it was the Blacks that had two and the whites one.

Since we all come Out of Africa - any racial discussion is rather truncated ( blasted before take off )

[Mosaic]

I read the article up to the point where the controversial author cliamed the Industrial Revolution happened in western Europe because we in that zone were racially predisposed to be open to new ideas.
Then I had to go and change as I wet meself larfin. Sadly someone will probably take the geezer seriously and maybe use it to hurt other humans.
There is at best tenuous biological support for the notion of 'race'. Work ethic and other behaviours are learned and passed on socially. There are huge areas of human development that are not yet understood, but in the last century unproven notions of race were applied politically to the detriment of us all.

[bazwillrun]

"Since we all come Out of Africa"
and there you have it....but some of us moved on a fair bit , didnt we !?

theres takers and theres makers !

[anotheoldgit]

If there are differences in breeds of dogs and other animals etc, some placid and others vicious, isn't it possible that there are behavioural differences in humans?

[jomifl]

Of course there are AOG but the point is that humans are a diverse species and not a group of races to which specific characteristics can be attributed.

[sp1814]

No.

Evironmetal influence is a far greater infuence on behavour.