ChatterBank1 min ago
Hinkley ~ Powered By Atoms, French, And Chinese = Dangerous Mix
Theresa May's putting a signature to the Hinkley Point on temporary -- and hopefully permanent -- hold is a welcome opportunity for UK Ltd to re-assess how it invests in technology for energy. Looking at atomic energy as a means of generating electricity raises important issues:
- (1) Hinkley will have reactors from EDF, a French government-owned company;
- (2) the reactors will use EDF technology. An EDF project in France is running years behind schedule, due to technical problems. This is also the case for an EDF reactor in Finnland;
- (3) the construction of these EDF reactors in Finnland and France have more than tripled in cost;
- (4) the much-vaunted carbon-neutrality of nuclear reactors has to be balanced by the deadly legacy of radio-active toxic waste that'll remain a threat for more than 40,000 generations of our race;
- (5) the proposed UK guarantee of >£92 for each MWh the EDF plants will produce is far higher than the £85/MWh for offshore windparks, according to Scandinavian data. Offshore wind is already 8% cheaper, undermining the economic case for Hinkley Point.
- (6) apart from there being no opportunity for UK nuclear know-how, developing it and producing a more knowledgeable home-grown employment bse, there is a greater threat in having Chinese partners involved in such a sensitive UK project: this'll open the door for them to 'peek' at our security structure. Not an altogether comforting situation. (Look how the Chinese have raised two fingers at the world's powers as they aggressively build and occupy the low-lying Spratly Islands in international waters, thereby claiming rights to surrounding fishing and other resources.)
- (7) Theresa May ought to revive the renewable energy industry. Apart from ever-cheaper wind energy, the obviously plentiful tidal energy we have will see more power being generated from this.
- (1) Hinkley will have reactors from EDF, a French government-owned company;
- (2) the reactors will use EDF technology. An EDF project in France is running years behind schedule, due to technical problems. This is also the case for an EDF reactor in Finnland;
- (3) the construction of these EDF reactors in Finnland and France have more than tripled in cost;
- (4) the much-vaunted carbon-neutrality of nuclear reactors has to be balanced by the deadly legacy of radio-active toxic waste that'll remain a threat for more than 40,000 generations of our race;
- (5) the proposed UK guarantee of >£92 for each MWh the EDF plants will produce is far higher than the £85/MWh for offshore windparks, according to Scandinavian data. Offshore wind is already 8% cheaper, undermining the economic case for Hinkley Point.
- (6) apart from there being no opportunity for UK nuclear know-how, developing it and producing a more knowledgeable home-grown employment bse, there is a greater threat in having Chinese partners involved in such a sensitive UK project: this'll open the door for them to 'peek' at our security structure. Not an altogether comforting situation. (Look how the Chinese have raised two fingers at the world's powers as they aggressively build and occupy the low-lying Spratly Islands in international waters, thereby claiming rights to surrounding fishing and other resources.)
- (7) Theresa May ought to revive the renewable energy industry. Apart from ever-cheaper wind energy, the obviously plentiful tidal energy we have will see more power being generated from this.
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Since renewable is going to be inadequate your conclusion fails.
Meanwhile no matter what the pros & cons of the French/Chinese deal is, the fact is that there are not many alternatives. Meanwhile the Chinese ambassador gives a thinly veiled threat to future relations if we don't do as they tell us and get on with it. Not a good situation to be in.
Tempting to concentrate trade somewhere other than China, buy in nuclear know-how and try to get something sorted ourselves. Not sure it would give the best result though, but it could indicate we are not to be pushed around by bullying world powers.
Meanwhile no matter what the pros & cons of the French/Chinese deal is, the fact is that there are not many alternatives. Meanwhile the Chinese ambassador gives a thinly veiled threat to future relations if we don't do as they tell us and get on with it. Not a good situation to be in.
Tempting to concentrate trade somewhere other than China, buy in nuclear know-how and try to get something sorted ourselves. Not sure it would give the best result though, but it could indicate we are not to be pushed around by bullying world powers.
Already discussed in detail here
http://
Wind,solar and wave power can not provide anywhere even near the quantity and continuity that we must have in electricity generation. We shot our selves in the foot when back in the 1970's when we decided to abandon our Nuclear power program that was world leading. Now we do not even have a training program for Nuclear engineering, let alone any engineers that have any experience of it.
http://
Wind,solar and wave power can not provide anywhere even near the quantity and continuity that we must have in electricity generation. We shot our selves in the foot when back in the 1970's when we decided to abandon our Nuclear power program that was world leading. Now we do not even have a training program for Nuclear engineering, let alone any engineers that have any experience of it.
Hopkirk tidal power is good but again as with all the renewable sources can never come anywhere near providing the amount of power needed with 24/7/365 availability. Also the structures needed to harness tidal power would be a very serious blockage to the shipping lanes, they have to be in shallow coastal waters the same places the entrances to the ports.
I cannot support Hinkley, I really can't - I don't want to go through all the reasons, they have all been said, I'm sure. What on Earth is wrong with small, modular, proven nuclear reactors spaced throughout the UK along with tidal power technology? (I wave a dismissive hand at windmills, sorry.)
Even a small modular reactor (such as is used in submarines) could power quite a large areal and the risk factor is much less. I may be being thick...
Even a small modular reactor (such as is used in submarines) could power quite a large areal and the risk factor is much less. I may be being thick...
Hopkirk , Read this link
Tidal powers maximum projected capacity is just 4% of the UK needs .
https:/
Hardly worth the huge cost !
Tidal powers maximum projected capacity is just 4% of the UK needs .
https:/
Hardly worth the huge cost !
Jourdain with Nuclear power the bigger the more efficient .
Small units as you suggest could take the place of a small gas turbine station but to power the UK we would need thousands of them ! One unit runs one submarine it might do 100 homes at a pinch . I would rather have 4 or 5 huge nuclear power station than several thousand tiny ones.
Small units as you suggest could take the place of a small gas turbine station but to power the UK we would need thousands of them ! One unit runs one submarine it might do 100 homes at a pinch . I would rather have 4 or 5 huge nuclear power station than several thousand tiny ones.
Eddie, I think that the link you gave was for tidal stream, not tidal lagoons
https:/
https:/
Togo - I live in an area of outstanding natural beauty, which has also huge potential for fracking. I put my country's needs first and will accept fracking as long as it is heavily disguised. My only (and it is a big one) objection is regarding the infrastructure needed to support it.
In this area of the North we have been ignored for years. The roads are breaking up and often single-track. The A64 clogs to standstill in holiday periods and it is the only (repeat only)West/East main artery. It is not even dualled for miles on end and a tractor can cause miles of hold-ups.
In other words, yes, we'll accept it - but it has to be made tolerable and, t.b.h. we have no faith in this happening given past history. We simply can't support more heavy traffic.
In this area of the North we have been ignored for years. The roads are breaking up and often single-track. The A64 clogs to standstill in holiday periods and it is the only (repeat only)West/East main artery. It is not even dualled for miles on end and a tractor can cause miles of hold-ups.
In other words, yes, we'll accept it - but it has to be made tolerable and, t.b.h. we have no faith in this happening given past history. We simply can't support more heavy traffic.
jourdain2....I am a supporter of small modular reactors too, but the idea of them has never really taken off....pity as they could work very well.
I am also a fan of tidal lagoons. One has been suggested for a location very near me :::
http://
But it just can't get the start-up money that it needs, which is a pity.
I am also a fan of tidal lagoons. One has been suggested for a location very near me :::
http://
But it just can't get the start-up money that it needs, which is a pity.
We have little choice on this one. Having let millions into the country we are now on the brink of running out of leccy especially at peak times.
I'm afraid she will just have to hold her nose and sign it. At least we will get some trade from China if she stops messing around.
Renewable s, unfortunately, just dont cut it at the moment.
As for the idea of thousands of small plants, think of this: Islamic terrorism. Convinced now it is a bad idea?
I'm afraid she will just have to hold her nose and sign it. At least we will get some trade from China if she stops messing around.
Renewable s, unfortunately, just dont cut it at the moment.
As for the idea of thousands of small plants, think of this: Islamic terrorism. Convinced now it is a bad idea?
youngmafbob Do you actually believe that immigration has caused the crisis in the UK electricity generating capacity?? I hope you are joking, if not I despair at your and others, inability to see any problem as having any other cause than immigration.
Immigration is a problem, but the present crisis in electricity generating capacity is a direct result of the UK's decision abandon our own nuclear power program back in the early 1970s.
That decision was a result of the very successful 'Anti Nuclear' protests that in turn were triggered by the 1960's CND 'Ban the Bomb' protests.
The argument was that nuclear power stations were just a disguise to produce material to make bombs. The theory was total rubbish but it was so successfully propounded and had so much public support that the government felt it had to act.
Now we are left with no new power stations being built and the forced closure of the 'old technology' coal fired stations that we have been using far beyond their intended lifespan.
A subject that has less to do with immigration would be very hard to find!
Immigration is a problem, but the present crisis in electricity generating capacity is a direct result of the UK's decision abandon our own nuclear power program back in the early 1970s.
That decision was a result of the very successful 'Anti Nuclear' protests that in turn were triggered by the 1960's CND 'Ban the Bomb' protests.
The argument was that nuclear power stations were just a disguise to produce material to make bombs. The theory was total rubbish but it was so successfully propounded and had so much public support that the government felt it had to act.
Now we are left with no new power stations being built and the forced closure of the 'old technology' coal fired stations that we have been using far beyond their intended lifespan.
A subject that has less to do with immigration would be very hard to find!
Well well, would you believe it? Chinese firm with a 1/3rd stake in the Hinkley Point nuclear power plant is charged with espionage.
http://
http://
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