Mathematics - Created Or Discovered?

[ToraToraTora]

I think discovered. It was and is all there we just found what works and devised a syntax and methods. presumably there is still a lot left to find too.

[New Judge]

Very philosophical for a Sunday morning! :-)

[New Judge]

Meant to add - I'll have a think about it when I've woken up properly :-)

[Old_Geezer]

The math patterns and processes would exist whether a species became aware of them or not. So clearly discovered.

[ToraToraTora]

I was watching the xmas lectures judge and Hannah Fry said "...and that's why we created mathematics.." - I always thought it was discovered so I thought I'd ask AB!

[ToraToraTora]

OG, yes that's my thinking too.

[Prudie]

I'm sure Jim360 gave a deep and lengthy view on this some time back - but for me I'll stick to my opinion - definitely discovered although tools to discover it were probably invented. A bit like much in the natural world.

[jno]

you could say the same of chemistry, geography, history... most things except language.

[zebo]

Surely it's a combination of both created and discovered. The concept of zero wasn't discovered, it was needed and hence that particular symbol came into common useage. Similarly the concept of the square root of -1 was needed to develop Mathematics further, hence i or j.

[ToraToraTora]

just labels for things zebo.

[Old_Geezer]

Zero was still a thing even before someone came up with a symbol to represent it. Imaginary numbers clearly must represent something real, as they are needed to get results we can see are correct. Again it's just realising what's already there, and a particular way to view it.

[elliemay1]

https://whyy.org/articles/new-exhibit-shows-us-that-mathematical-patterns-are-abundant-in-nature/

[woofgang]

I think its both...the framework....the facts of mathematics exist embedded in the structure of the universe but the words and symbols we use to describe and manipulate the facts had to be invented...or at least chosen out of the words and symbols that existed already

[TonyV]

Thought it was Egyptians when they designed the pyramids.

[douglas9401]

It could well have been the Egyptians. The original Cairopractors.

[KARL]

I agree with you that it was not created inasmuch as you have said: The "things" mathematics describes have always been there, sort of. However, I also think discovery does not satisfactorily describe its appearance as virtually a language of sorts either whereas defining would to me be the best fit of the three. Mathematics is a discipline which revolves around demonstrating the "nature" of concepts, facts, etc. Actually, formulating maths is also a very good term. Then, how would one define or formulate the act of creation.....

The answer to your question is perhaps not a straight forward yes/no, black/white type.

[scorpiojo]

Lol Douglas :-)

[Khandro]

Some things in maths are, like the Periodic Table, simply "there", other things like the 9 times table, are constructed by humans.

[jim360]

Wish I could remember what my view was before.

But it's probably both. A thing can only be discovered if it exists in nature.

[jim360]

https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Science/Question1629117.html

[New Judge]

//other things like the 9 times table, are constructed by humans.//

But are they, though? If you accept that numbers are a human construction (based around the ten digits that most of us have) then a multiplication table is simply a list of successive additions. If you hold up one finger and then another you have two. So one plus one (or 2 x 1) equals two. If you hold up four fingers, then another four, you count to eight. So 2 x 4 is eight. Remembering the eight, you could hold up another four and count to twelve. So these are not so much constructions but simply a count (one way or another) of what is already there. I suppose the "constructions" are the "+" and "x" operators that make the counts that much easier and the tables are simply a list of calculations which it is handy to have in your head.

As I said previously, a bit too philosophical for Sunday morning. Time for a pint of Crudgingtons Old & Filthy, I think.