Can A Magnet Siphon A Ferrofluid Up An Inclined Pipe/Tube?

[crankfwd]

If you had a small lake of ferrofluid, could that fluid be siphoned up lots of pipes, using magnets, so that it fills a reservoir which then uses the same ferrofluid to power a hydroelectric generator and fill the original lake up?

[Old_Geezer]

Unsure, but can't think why one would. Must be easier ways of storing energy.

[woofgang]

I have a feeling it would only work if you had a truly frictionless set up.

[jno]

sounds like a sort of perpetual motion machine to me.. If you can get it up and running, people would be interested.

[ToraToraTora]

the magnets would pull the ferrous particles out of the suspension fluid so most of the fluid would not make it up the hill.

[crankfwd]

I thought about that and watched a few videos. It seems the surfactant used keeps the particles 'dissolved'. Also, once the syphoning starts, wouldn't that bring the liquid up the tube?

[douglas9401]

Maybe try it with spoon-shaped particles.

You could have a scoop on your hands.

[crankfwd]

Woofgang- they use ferrofluid as a lubricant in speakers because it causes so little friction, so it might work.
Old Geezer- that's right, if the ferrofluid can be pulled up a pipe then why bother storing it in a reservoir? It could flow into a downpipe that leads to a generator. That might work.
Jno- yes, I suppose, but surely someone would have tried this already?

[waterboatman]

In a word No, as TTT says, the particles in the fluid would be attracted to the magnet, but a fluid would not. A pump would lift it.

[mibn2cweus]

Also you can not raise a body of fluid with a siphon. Siphons are driven by ultimately lowering the level of a body of fluid.

[waterboatman]

That's why I said a pump.

[crankfwd]

waterboatman- this video on youtube https://youtu.be/xBCVC-bvaFg
seems to say that the particles wouldn't separate because of the surfactant and the small size of the particles. He explains it around 7 minutes in. Can't use a pump because that would use electricity. What I'm trying to find out is if the magnet can lift the ferrofluid and overcome gravity then surely it could be used to create hydroelectricity.

[waterboatman]

Good thinking. But I don't think it would. A pump doesn't necessarily need to run on electricity.

[crankfwd]

mibn2- yeah, siphon was a bad choice of word. What I mean is, if the magnet pulls the fluid out of the top of the tube, wouldn't the rest of the fluid follow on and be pulled out with suction or capillary action? The video on youtube seems to state that the particles would remain mixed in with the fluid, so all of the fluid in the tube would be attracted by the magnet when it is pulled up.

[waterboatman]

It doesn't work like that I'm afraid. You can't lift fluid with a magnet, simply because it's a fluid.

[crankfwd]

waterboatman- what kind of pump doesn't use some form of energy? And wouldn't they use that already to build artificial hydroelectric systems with water, although by my logic someone must have tried to raise ferrofluid with a magnet, but I just can't find it anywhere. Thanks for the input though.

[crankfwd]

waterboatman- the thing about ferrofluid though, is that it was created in the sixties to make rocket fuel moveable in space. It turned out to be too impure to mix with the rocket fuel but we're left with a very cool liquid that can be moved by a magnet. My problem is that I need to know if it could be moved upward, against gravity, but no one seems to have tried that on youtube, they just make spiky shapes.(which are still cool)

[waterboatman]

You're welcome. You need to study the laws of physics. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[crankfwd]

Okay, I've been watching a few videos on siphons/syphons, and I think I've found a way to get this to work. The tube should look like a walking cane, with the bend at the top, and the outlet facing down. Same as before the inlet is immersed in the lower reservoir of ferrofluid, the rest of the tube is already full all the way to the top and round the bend and going downwards (there is a way of doing this with a top up valve at the top of the bend, this technology already exists). Then if the magnet is placed under the downward facing outlet, the magnet will pull the ferrofluid down (with gravity on our side this time) this will create a vacuum in the bend which should pull up the rest of the ferrofluid and create a flow. The ferrofluid will flow onto the magnet and the first few litres of fluid will be stuck to the magnet forming those cool spikey shapes. But at some point enough ferrofluid will flow onto the magnet (which can only 'hold' so much) and the excess will flow over the magnet (and spikes), falling into the upper reservoir. This upper reservoir is under the magnet but is still way above the lower reservoir. The ferrofluid can then be used in a normal hydroelectric generator as if it was water. Any opinions on this? Please let me know what you think, especially any physicists or engineers.

[AZardoz]

I see the makings of a perpetual motion machine. Hello !
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion
Don't schools teach physics any more? Does anybody listen?

[crankfwd]

AZardoz - I see what you're saying and be assured that I'm not a crank or a fraudster. Okay, the hydroelectric part of the idea isn't perpetual motion, it is using the force of gravity to create electricity.
Now the sun, heats and evaporates the sea water, turning it into clouds, which rain on the mountain, which runs down a river to the hydroelectric power station, then out to sea again. This isn't perpetual motion, this is in fact nuclear, being that the heat comes from the sun, which will die one day.
Now in this system, I am just trying to get this amazing ferrofluid up to a higher level using a magnet. This magnet will wear down eventually and have to be replaced or recharged. There is nothing perpetual about it.
So rather than ranting about bad education and no one listening, why not tell me which part of my idea won't hold up. I welcome your constructive input and I want this to be an interesting and friendly discussion during lockdown.