Could A Hydroelectric Power Station Be Created Out At Sea?

crankfwd | 20:30 Mon 25th May 2020 | Science

88 Answers

Okay, I've got another idea about hydroelectric power that I could use some help with. Imagine you have an enormous funnel that is 1km in diameter at the top. This enormous funnel is held in place by four hollow towers (that are open at the top), that are cemented into the sea bed. The top of the funnel is just below sea level so that it is always half full of seawater. The spout of the tunnel goes about 250m down, where it splits four ways into tubes that feed the four hollow towers. Where the water feeds into the tower there is a hydroelectric turbine. The water keeps on falling after going through the turbine and falls into the hollow tower

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alavahalf

Come on then .. show us the picture !
My guess is you were just about to mention this, so sorry if I'm jumping the gun!
How about you just geep going .. down into the seabed and beyond. Add a few more turbines and at some stage your funnel will get close to the centre of the earth, this could be a good thing ..
Once it's up and running, all the water that lands on the exposed lava will evaporate and rise up your towers as steam, so there will be no need to pump it out.
All you naysayers didn't see that coming, did you !

What about the gang of blokes who are laying the bricks .. whenever they fancy a brew, they will be able to boil there kettle on the lava !
This just gets better and better !

crankfwd

Question Author

New Judge- If you know the mechanics, then state away, please bother. Also, the pump is there to stop the tower filling up with water otherwise the obvious occurs.

crankfwd

Question Author

alavahalf- You know me so well, but what else could I expect from someone with the word lava in their name! In my version, the steam goes up through another tube and, you guessed twenty more turbines. Only problem I can see is what to do with all the leftover salt. Maybe the brickies could put it on their chips?

alavahalf

Straight into their boiled eggs !

crankfwd

Question Author

alavahalf - sounds like my dream job. But first, I'd have to learn bricklaying, marine engineering and, of course, how to boil an egg.

beso

crankfwd // beso- two words of advice. Pay attention! I'm not some Karen who believes in free energy or perpetual motion. I suggest you go hunting in a much shallower stream if you want such easy prey. Try the Cummings debate. Yes, well copy and pasted, it takes more energy to pump the water into the deep ocean than could be created by a turbine. I've already stated that! That's why I'm suggesting adding two more turbines to the tower. That's why I'm asking about underwater pumps. If you don't know enough about mechanics or engineering to give a serious or even, light hearted answer, then feel free to save yourself the energy.//

Adding more turbines, underwater pump, blah blah. Everything you have said just reinforces the fact that you still are pursuing perpetual motion and haven't a clue about engineering. The concept in your other posts about only pumping the water sideways rather than up indicates you don't even know the basics about hydraulic engineering.

Among several different projects I have worked as an electrical, electronic and mechanical engineer on small teams that designed and built small hydro turbines and wind turbines that worked extremely well. I have no doubt my knowledge of mechanics and achievements in engineering are a long way more developed than yours are likely to ever be.

crankfwd

Question Author

beso- oh dear. Let me comfort that bruised ego by stating that you probably know lots more about engineering, mechanics etc than I do. I'm sure you've remembered most of what has been 'Pavloved' into you over the years. You were on 'small teams that designed and built small hydro turbines', so basically, you needed help just to make a water wheel for a garden stream. Nice.
Look, I know you want to section me off in your closed mind along with anti-vaxxers and 5G mast burners, but you're not just barking up the wrong tree, you're in the wrong forest! Okay?
So now that I've put your toy back in your pram for you, go and have a rest.

THECORBYLOON

Now, now, play nicely!

crankfwd

Question Author

thecorbyloon- sorry dad. But, but...he...he started it.
And honestly, didn't mean to leave a massive gap after the text. It might have looked like the AnswerBank version of a mike drop, but it was just one of my many chins leaning on the space bar.

Atheist

Crank, you still seem to me to be pursuing a perpetual motion machine. You haven't answered my question at 15:33 Wed. Could you perhaps respond to that? You don't have to defend yourself so much as explain yourself.

Peter Pedant

// New Judge- If you know the mechanics,//
yes of course he does - an engineer who doesnt add ....
on his own admission ( judge - geddit?)

this generator thing wont run down .... perhaps it is powered by limitless energy !

70 answers - where are we now?

Peter Pedant

// it takes more energy to pump the water into the deep ocean than could be created by a turbine. I've already stated that! //

no ! Yes ! I told him that ! - first page

so we are STILL at - (1) you cant get more energy out than you put in
(2) yes I think you can !

er (3) well have fun boys and girls ! -

crankfwd

Question Author

Atheist- Firstly, forget the funnel, that's gonna be upended and used as a giant techno tent at the next Burning Man festival.
Sorry, thought I'd answered your question. If, as in your example, I add more turbines, then I have to increase the height for each one and so need more electricity. Point conceded.
Peter P-If you'd like to join us. So in my tower (not my ivory one, the other one) I also concede that the deeper I go, to add more turbines, then the higher the pressure of the water outside. So the increased water pressure cancels out any benefit I get from adding more turbines. I concede that. All is well in the world. Carnot's happy. The laws of thermodynamics apply and all I've done is build a shipping hazard. We're back on page 1.
But...I'm suggesting that as the pump propellers chop into the falling water, they aerate it. Would this aerated water be easier to expel? Would it be easier to expel at deeper levels? Would placement, shape or diameter of the outlet pipe affect this?
That's the area I wanted to explore, I'm not a Carnot denier.

mibn2cweus

Aerating the water decreases its mass, increasing the pressure differential at the bottom of the (inverted) tower. Pressure at the bottom will reach equilibrium when the water level inside is equal to the level outside.

crankfwd

Question Author

Mib-but wouldn't that aerated water be easier to expel due to it's 'buoyancy' (for want of a much, much better word)?

mibn2cweus

Bubbles float up displaced by the denser water in which they are suspended.

The basic problem is that no single or combination of generators and/or pumps produces more energy than they consume.

crankfwd

Question Author

Mib- Sure, but if I can expel the aerated water before the air is displaced, then it should work.
Also, I was looking at ram pumps that require no electricity to work. They need flowing water, which I have an abundance of, at the bottom of the tower. I could use them to take the water up to the shallower ocean, where my 'waste' water could be expelled because the outside ocean is at a lower pressure than it is at the sea bed.

mibn2cweus

Ram pumps only deliver a small fraction of the input flow under ideal conditions and will not operate at all for this purpose since external pressure would not allow waste water to flow out of the pump but would force water in through the waste valve until equilibrium is attained.

A submerged tower is no longer a tower . . . it is a tank.

alavahalf

Ram pumps are a simple concept .. but the ratio of water required to operate them is around 10 : 1 assuming it is an efficient pump.
Therefore every litre you lift will require 10 more litres o to be disposed of ... as mib puts it .. from your tank !

This whole concept could work if it was set up on the 'Edge of the world'. Then you could run your drain pipe somewhere.
Suppose it's a bit like a Hydro Electric dam .... now there's an idea ? .. ;-))

crankfwd

Question Author

mib-the waste valve wouldn't be under water.
alava-so you say that I could get rid of a tenth of the water from my tower/tank, without using any of the electricity created, sounds like a start to me. Just nine tenths left to go!
'Edge of the world', I'm not a Flat Erfer, niver.

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