dead or not dead

[gina1960uk]

Can someone tell me if they have any knowledge about clients on ventilators.

eg: If a client is brain dead but the bodily organs are still functioning while on a ventilator would this client be classed as clinically dead. Dead or not Dead?. My daughter is doing work on this subject and needs help from someone with a background on this subject.

would appreciate any help its for her exams

[Clanad]

While not having the background experience or education you may need on the subject, we find here in the U.S., this becomes a legal question, rather than an exclusively medical one. If someone is in the condition you describe, it is, in most cases, the courts that decide the course of action to be taken...

[qapmoc]

Solicitors and lawyers have clients, doctors and clinics have patients. So obviously you already know that the question is a legal one not a medical one.

[OBonio]

I think if the brain stem test indicates they are brain dead then, yes, the patient is deemed to have died.

[gina1960uk]

Hi qapmoc ....any person studying nursing now has to refer to the person needing medical help as a CLIENT and not the old term PATIENT this is a new law. I like you didn't know this until my daughter began her nursing career. I'm not sure if your from the UK or USA but in the UK Client now replaces the word Patient.

Ridiculous I know but true!

[qapmoc]

Thanks for putting me right, this sounds like one of the rules that an accountant would dream up, is this a first move into getting PATIENTS to accept becoming CLIENTS who as usual would have to pay ''up front'' for everything ??

[campbellking]

Brain stem death tests need to be carried out by two separate clinicians with a time gap inbetween, and them to agree on the findings before a patient can be classified as 'brain dead'. These involve doing things like putting iced water into someone's ears and looking for a reaction, and various other unpleasant things.

Incidentally, we still tend to refer to people in hospitals as 'patients' rather than 'clients' who tend to be found in community settings. As one of my patients said, when asked whether he would prefer to be referred to as a 'patient' or a 'client', 'prostitues have clients'....

[Peter Pedant]

Your daughter as health care client provider (or trainee nurse or 'learner') should have access to a library (or health care technology information free access point)

There is a good BMJ publication - ABC of brain death I think, which goes through all this at a reasonable level.

Or else pubmed or medline Teasdale or Jennett, who are the main authors.

[gina1960uk]

Hi thanks to everyone who responded to my question. Thanks Peter for your response. Yes she does have access to a huge library at the University she is attending She has spoken to various people high up in this profession and had very different responses no answer is the same ...strange!!!....... but very interesting. She isn't necessarily looking for book answers but people answers. She has had brilliant responses via Email that has now made it possible to bring on her debate as part of her final course. Thank you to all:)