mould/fungal growth

[o8sp]

what is the black stuff that grows in washing machine detergent comparment and in bathrooms? is it a fungal growth or mould (or are those terms interchangeable)?

[Ethel]

It is a build up of bacteria, because it gets very hot and steamy and is the idea breeding ground.

You probably don't do a lot of 'boil washes' in your machine and you very likely use colour safe and non biological detergents. This does nothing to kill the bacteria.

Once a month run the machine on the hottest possible wash, whilst it is empty. Use the cheapest biological powder you can find (it must be powder). This will help clean the machine thoroughly. All washing machine manufacturers recommend this 'maintenance wash'. Take out the drawer and give it a very thorough wash.

Also clean the compartment, in particular the top. I use a cheap bottle brush in a bleach solution.

In the bathroom you can use a proprietary cleaner or a diluted bleach.

[theprof]

The bathroom mould is most probably one of the Cladosporium species although there is a possibility it could be one of about seven closely related moulds. Much closer examination would be required to give you a precise answer.

Cladosporium is one of the most harmless mould species found indoors ironically because we are all exposed to it in one way or another - it is the most common mould species found in air samples. All the same, in sensitive individuals, it can lead to allergy and sometimes, asthma.

If the mould you see in the washing machine compartment looks identical to the one in the bathroom, its probably also Cladosporium although some can only be told apart under a microscope.

The Fungi Kingdom is divided into five divisions and Cladosporium is amongst a division called the Ascomycota. However, any fungal organism may loosely be referred to as a "fungal growth", so yes, in this case in very simple terms, the terms are interchangeable.

Look up Cladosporium on Google Images if you want to compare the appearance of your mould with other identified samples.

Finally, for those with a fondness for referring to Wikipedia as a source of information, be very wary of the comments under "Clinical Information". Much of it is simply not true and appears to have been taken from something called a "Health and Energy" website in a cited link. The company appears to be a health pressure group of some sort : 'nuf said.

[theprof]

Ethel
o8sp implies that the growth in the washing machine compartment and the bathroom are identical to one another.

Bathrooms are not generally recognised as a breeding ground for bacteria in the form described by o8sp and the poster seems to think that the growth is fungal in origin for reasons that remain unclear. Now, Cladosporium can be regarded as "furry" and does look similar to the Penicillium mould found on stale bread apart from the colour, so this may be the thinking behind it.

I have seen cladosporium species in fridges, washing machine compartments, on silicone sealant and various other substrates over the last few years - I even get the damn stuff on my own UPVC window sills now and again.

All in all, I think it's a safe bet that it is Cladosporium that o8sp has seen. Bacterial growth would generally be slimy and o8sp makes no mention of this as far as the bathroom is concerned.

[o8sp]

sorry i have not explained myself. i work for a water company and we often get customers phoning in telling us that the water has turned their detergent drawers/bathroom sealant black. we also get calls about gelatinous substances coming out of the tap that also seem to be a mould/fungal gelationous blob. we reply telling the customer that the problem is fungal growth due to spores being present in the environment and damp areas being a good breeding ground for fungal growth. we recommend propriety cleaners, drying and increasing ventilation but i just wanted to check that i was using the correct terminology.

thanks

[theprof]

Ah, now I see where your coming from o8sp.

First of all you can tell you customers that its not your water that turning their bathroom sealant and detegent drawers black.

Cladosporium and related moulds are endemic throughout the environment. The spores fall from the air into the resorvoirs and there is no filtration system in place with water authorities to filter out these minute spores. Under laboratory conditions, it could be done using specialised ultrafiltration techniques, but its simply not possible with the volume of water your dealing with as the process is relatively slow and costly.

Cladosporium is in the very air that we breath and it only needs a suitable damp substrate or environment for the hyphae to begin to grow.

The best solution is to keep everything that the mould is likely to grow on as dry as possible. this includes wiping the sealant around baths/showers and detergent drawers with paper tissues if necessary following use. I know it sounds extreme but it works. To kill the stuff, spray it with a 50/50 solution of a good strong bleach (Domestos) and leave it on for 15 minutes at least before wiping it away. Dry again afterwards.

[theprof]

I suspect the gelatinous blobs your customers are complaining of are algae growths. They are coming from somewhere between the resorvoir and the customer and it may be that the algae are in the companies filter bds.

Normal filtration system should not allow algae blobs to reach the consumers taps, so it wouldn't surprise me that a filter system has broken down somewhere. Mould/fungal growths do not normally have the appearance you describe. What colour is the algae growth? Is it gelatinous in texture?

What I suggest you do is to have a chat with one of the laboratory scientific officers employed by your company. You should have at least one microbiologist in the region who routinely tests the quality of the water. You may, if your lucky, even have a botanist to hand. These people will provide you with some good information on moulds and algae and they can recommend the action that needs to be taken.

Although I realise that you are not intentionally misleading the customers over these issues, I'd be very wary of baffling them with science. I've always found it comes back and bites you in the backside when you least expect it - I know what I would tell you if you gave those excuses to me!

Let me know if I can help further!

[Birt]

The prof - Is there anything you dont know!!

[theprof]

Yes Birt - I've got no idea what you had for breakfast this morning!

[Birt]

WOW theprof, I didnt have any breakfast this morning. That might be why you couldnt tell me. You are a God!!!!

[o8sp]

thanks prof. i agree with the comment about baffling the customers with science will come back and bite me on my backside hence wanting to check if the phrases i am told to include in my replies are at all correct. i know that it is not the water per se that is to blame for either problem but then we have people telling us that the water is causing their faces to glow in the dark or their potatoes to disintegrate so i don't always feel too generous when replying as i feel that common sense should be used.

i do agree that you seem to be a font of all knowledge - scientific at least.

[theprof]

o8sp:

I sympathise with your comments and frustration and I can well imagine that some people will go out of their way to claim that your water is harmful in one way or another.

It wouldn't surprise me if some of them tried to feign illness thanks to the compensation culture that seems to be endemic nowadays.

I think the important thing to remember is that as long as your company can be shown to be doing all it can to provide potable drinking water along with high standards of quality control, these people would not have a leg to stand on if they decided to take legal action over their spurious claims - defence expert witnesses would demolish them in court.

Do all you can to maintain a high water standard and tell these people to take a hike - politely of course!

[theprof]

Thanks Birt

[Woodey]

For ten years I had to clean the black mould out of the detergent compartment and drawer in our Bosch WFK2200. About once a month I used to spray it with kitchen bleach spray then use an old kitchen sponge to remove as much as possble of the black mould.

Then I discovered the source of our problem. It was Comfort conditioner. I stopped using it, just used our local Coop non-bio washing powder. Result: no more black mould.

Last October we bought a Bosch WEA 28467. I have never used conditioner in it, just our usual washing powder. There is no sign of black mould in the drawer or compartment.

There may be other causes of black mould, but my advice is, if your are using conditioner, clean out the black mould, stop using conditioner and see whether you still get the black mould.

[Chewie1951]

Woodey that sounds really interesting because the mould in my soap dispenser is worse where the fabric conditioner goes!