Are Mediums & Clairvoyants Evil?

[luna-tic]

To some people the gifts of those that claim to communicate with the dead or can see future events are classed as demonic or deceivers. If a person (whether religious or not ) was told that a missing member of their family could be located by a medium,would they believe it or with evidence, change their mind or then question their belief?

[Theland]

Mediums and clairvoyants are not necessarily evil, but of course, they are if they are motivated by money and take advantage of vulnerable people.
I have to say at the outset, that there are many so called Christian ministries that do just that, especially in the U.S.A. but also here in the U.K.
The names of Benny Hinn, Oral Roberts, Creflo Dollar, and Rory & Wendy Alec spring to mind. Money preachers.
However, it depends by what yardstick we measure the integrity of such people.
As you know, my yardstick is the Bible, and other people will have their own preferred method of ascertaining the claims, and authority of these people.

[naomi24]

I agree with Theland that some do make a living by preying on the vulnerable. I wouldn't class those as demonic, but I would class them as deceivers and charlatans.

There are some genuine psychics who help in all sorts of ways, whether it be in consoling someone on the death of a relative, giving people hope for the future, helping trace missing persons, or finding the bodies of murder victims, and I think they do a good, useful and valid job.

[luna-tic]

I think whether my devout religious beliefs(speaking for others and not myself) were put into question regarding a missing family member or friend and evidence being given by a medium to be found true, I would accept whatever help I could get but as both of you so rightly pointed out; There will always be people who try to deceive us for monetary gain.

[naomi24]

I can't speak for religious people who hold the view that we shouldn't meddle in spiritualism of any description, but I would accept any help I could get in those circumstances.

What about you Theland? Would you personally accept help from a spiritualist if one of your loved ones was missing?

[Theland]

naomi24 - That has to be the most difficult of moral dilemmas you could have possibly asked me.
A dilemma because a person who meant so much to me had gone missing and another person is reputed to hold the key to the mystery.
The temptation to succumb would be almost overwhelming, of that i am sure. But I believe in a god who is bigger and stronger and wiser than any clairvoyant or medium, so I would pray to Him, that my loved one would be returned to me safely.
The temptation to deviate from Gods' path, is always the promise of a quick fix to a problem.
I believe that it is a hollow promise, but nevertheless, I can only imagine the magnitude of the temptation. Much prayer would be necessary for me to resist, I admit.

[jake-the-peg]

I think I'd probably frog-march them to where they supposed them to be and then beat the cr@p out of them when they inevitably failed.

I don't like the word "evil" I don't think it's helpful but people that prey on others when they're vulnerable need to be....errr...discouraged

[naomi24]

Theland, that's precisely why I asked you. I know that would be a huge dilemma for you.

I understand what you're saying, but have you considered that if your god is the creator of all, then he obviously created mediums too, so perhaps he gave them their ability especially to help people in instances like this. Perhaps you're meant to use them. After all, wouldn't it be tragic if you relied on a prayer that wasn't answered, when possibly a medium could have made some positive inroad into solving the problem?

[Theland]

naomi24 - I've spent so much time in your very pleasant company today, that if your husband gets home from work early, I'll have to hide in the wardrobe!

God gave us all a free choice. He also gave us instructions. Necromancy is forbidden. Anybody attempting to communicate with the dead are freely choosing to disobey God. So God didn't create mediums, just people who chose to do what they do.
We can choose also, to approach these people for information .... or not.
But I think that if one of my loved went missing, I would be beside myself with grief, and not thinking as I am thinking now, and so, the temptation that I spoke about earlier, would be suffocating.

[naomi24]

Theland, you'd have to squash up - I've already got Mani in there!

[naomi24]

Theland, from speaking to mediums this is something that comes naturally to them - it's not a choice, but then I suppose they do choose to use their ability to help others. My friend is a spiritualist and she has no power to prevent 'messages' coming into her mind.

If I took your view, I don't think I could live with myself if anything terrible happened to one of mine, when I might have been able to prevent it. Surely your god knows how much you love your family and, if asked, would forgive you?

[WaldoMcFroog]

I agree with Jake.

They're not evil in the sense of being possessed, but to play on the hopes of the distressed or bereaved is beneath contempt. Sylvia Browne etc stand up, you scumbags.

Of course, I don't believe there's such a thing as genuine mediums whatsoever, and I've never seen or heard anything that couldn't be achieved by conjuring tricks (or confidence tricks).

[luna-tic]

Hello Jake, You are right when you said,"People that prey on others who are vunerable need to be discouraged" but I think that only applies if they have been found to be frauds and asking excessive amounts of money for their time.
What would happen if you frog-marched them to the scene and they succeeded?
Waldo, I can't speak for everyone's experience with a medium/s. I visited one without giving my full name and I only answered his questions with yes or no so he had no previous clues as to the life of the person deceased and yet told me things I'd said to her only days before she passed on and things about her that no one else could know. Even my meeting with the medium was only set-up the day before so no one I knew could of told him anything.
I found the whole experience enlightening and answered a lot of questions. So I don't think there was any deceiving or conjuring tricks going on.

[naomi24]

I don't think there's anything demonic about them, but I do believe many play on people's vulnerability. Let's face it, some of them are just tricksters - and horrible with it. However, unlike you Waldo, from personal experience I know that some are genuine, and what they have said to me couldn't have been achieved through conjuring tricks or a confidence tricks. Some things I had to check out with my parents because I didn't understand anything the spiritualists said, so I couldn't have given them any clues - and it turned out they were absolutely spot on. I suppose unless you've experienced something like that, it is dfficult to believe it.

[jake-the-peg]

I think I'd beat the cr@p out of them for being involved!!

[Lighter]

Do these mediums lead you closer to God, praise and honour Him,or do they lead you away from God, trusting more in them than in God?
Read 1st John Ch4.
I think most are charlatans, but any that do have 'genuine' powers I believe are helped more by Satan than by God, (whether they realise it or not). Sure they might help people, but Satan will do anything, even if it seems good, to lead people away from God.

As for using a medium or clairvoyant to find a missing family member, I would say that I never would.
Firstly I would never have thought about it before this question.
But also I trust God and believe He can do anything, He has helped me and delivered me in all other troubles in my life.
As Theland mentioned the use of such means is forbidden in the Bible, and if there's any time that you would want to obey God it's surely when you're in dire need of His help. Why would I go begging from Satan when I have Almighty God at my side!

I just trust and pray that none of us will ever be in that situation.

[luna-tic]

Lighter~ If I was in that situation I would find it very difficult to differentiate between god and satan if help was given and evidence was found. My belief (if religious) would be a deciding factor but at the same time questionable.
Because it states in the bible that talking to the deceased or help from guides is wrong but then the facts may sway your theology to know that god assisted this person to find the missing one.
No I hope nothing like this ever happens to anyone either but I posed the question because while answering another persons, the subject of mediums being used came up and I wondered if put in that hypothetical situation, what would followers of Christ think.

[naomi24]

Lighter, From your post it's clear you've never attended a Spiritualist church, otherwise you would know what happens at their services - and they do hold services. They worship god, they don't lead people away from him - in fact they bring many closer to him. The people who attend aren't begging for Satan's help - they go there with god in mind, and if god knows the secrets of all hearts, then he knows that. The mediums don't take money, and they don't see their abilities as evil - they see them as a gift from god. These aren't people who set up shop at the end of the pier - they have a very different ethic.

[Theland]

Lighter and I would say that Satan often presents himself as an angel of light. We would advise people to beware.

[naomi24]

Theland, if you and Lighter believe that Satan often presents himself as an Angel of Light, how can you be sure he's not presenting himself in that way to you, and that you are not being led down the wrong path?

I might be wrong, but I expect you will say it's because you believe in the bible as god's word, but the question then is how do you know that Satan didn't present himself as an Angel of Light to its authors? Are both they and the teachers you listen to false prophets? Maybe they've been hoodwinked. How can you tell?

You would advise people to beware Satan (whom I don't believe in incidentally), but I would advise people to beware your religious dogma because I see that as antiquated superstition, and as such, highly damaging to both mind and spirit.

[Theland]

As Jesus said, a house divided against itself cannot stand. Therefore Satan cannot stand against Satan.
The Bible does not promote a "form" of spirituality, but invites us to engage with the true God, and warns against Satan, through and through.
If Satan appeared as he really is, we would run a mile .... to the nearest church probably. So Satan, the, "Father Of Lies," deceives by promoting religion, some with a great element of truth in them, but like a little yeast working its way throughout the whole loaf, so a little deception and erronious doctrine, contaminates the whole soul.