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Brachiopod, where are you?

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chamois | 00:25 Tue 28th Aug 2007 | Science
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OK Brachiopod, I'll take up your offer from below and ask you to explain why the egg came before the chicken.
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Ok, let us put evolutionary theory aside for one moment, as there are many who would dismiss it through 'lack of evidence'. and would much rather believe in the 'facts' presented in The Big Book of Fairytales.

However, one thing we can't deny is man's domestication of animals through selective breeding. Hence our insipid pink pigs from wild boar stock; our high yielding milkers -the Holstein-Fresians - from ancient bovines; and our broiler and laying flocks from wild guinea fowl or somesuch.

In the same way that the selectively bred offspring of a wild boar could no longer be called a 'wild boar', but instead a hog or a pig - then the offspring of a descendant of a wild fowl at some point was called a 'chicken'.

Its parent was not a chicken, yet it laid the egg from which the thing we first called a chicken hatched.

Therefore - the egg came first.

It's all about drawing the line between something that is not-quite-a-chicken laying the egg that something that is-called-a-chicken hatched from.

It can also, in evolutionary terms, be applied to the whole taxonomical Class of Aves (Birds).
Taken to its logical conclusion - at some point, something that wasn't quite a bird (as we define it) laid an egg that hatched into something that , although very similar to its parent, was a bird. Therefore, (again), the egg came before the bird.
Ahem.... I beg to differ with the revered lampshell and deduced that the chicken was first by the following reasoning.

The humble chicken is a descendant from the jungle fowl Gallus gallus which roamed in the wild for well over 10 million years before pre-man began to walk upright.

It was not until European traders visited the Asian regions around 2 millennian ago that the birds were discovered by western society.

If I may now re-iterate brachiopods reasoning - Its parent was not a chicken, yet it laid the egg from which the thing we first called a chicken hatched. This in itself clearly shows that it was not a chicken that layed the egg that produced a bird that was subsequently called a chicken - thus the bird became a chicken after it was hatched so the egg in the question was not a chicken egg and my head hurts now so I am going to make a cup of coffee.

Ah, but...
If the creature that hatched was a chicken (even though its parents were not), then the egg that it hatched from was a chicken egg, so...
... the egg came first!
:-)
It depends on how you phrase the question.
If the question is "Which came first, the chicken or the egg from which the first chicken emerged?" then the egg came first as reasoned above.
But if the question is "Which came first, the chicken or the chicken's egg?" then the chicken came first because the egg from which it hatched was not a chicken's egg but a pre-chicken's egg.
So really it boils down to the question 'Did the genetic change that produced the first chicken take place in the laying bird, or in embryo?'

I don't think we'll ever know.

I think I'll just stick with eggs from dinosaurs coming before chickens.
I think the problem lies in the possession of the egg. Does it belong to the parent or the child?
Waves at Brachi, Hellooooo!! Long time no (pixel) see...Hope all's well with you

I feel bad for hijacking to say 'hi' now chamois, so erm....

Did the egg come first as it was part of the starter and the chicken was the main course?

(That's ^^^ why I never answer anything in Science!)
It's also why I shouldn't try to be posh and play with the fonts.... Grrr...
so what came first then brachipod the wild fowl or and egg
sorry the wild fowl or the egg
It is obvious that the chicken came first in order to produce an egg. Also with humans a baby needs a parent so it must precede the child. The maker could easily produce adult species to continue the generations to follow.
The rooster came first, otherwise you just have an infertile egg.

. . . or was it the hen?

Yep, better just stick with the dinosaur thing.


Anyway, you who China Doll,
The slash / comes first, then the letter b.
When in doubt, preview comes first . . . then the submit!
Hiya Mibs, you alright? All well with you? I know, I know... I got carried away actually answering something in Science as opposed to just asking random questions and forgot my / !!

Ahem... If the rooster was any kind of gentleman then I agree, the hen would have come first.

(Yet another example of why I don't answer in Science).
Sorry, but it's got to be done...

A chicken and an egg are lying in bed enjoying a post coital cigarette. The chicken turns to the egg and says, 'well that answers that question then...'

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