ChatterBank1 min ago
LHC and Associated Gubbins
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Folks, we all know that the LHC is attemping to recreate the conditions just after the Big Bang in order to prove the existence of the Higgs Bosun, amongst other potential exotic particles (not to mention mini-black holes). As the Big Bang is still technically a theory, how can we be sure that these conditions will be replicated? Wouldn't this post-big bang period still be extremely hot and dense? It's also stated that any mini-black holes will evaporate - now I'm familiar with how liquid water changes states when it evaporates, but what would actually happen to a mini-black hole during evaporation? Just curious - I'm no physicist!!
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evaporate is a misleading term here. Essentially antiparticals will fall in and decrease mass to 0. normally the partical antipartical pair would anihilate each other but in close proximty to a BH the antipartical could fall in leaving the partical; to appear that it has been emitted from the black hole, this would appear as "Hawking Radiation". In the case of LHC created tiny BH's this process would last pico seconds.
Coo I hardly know where to start!
The LHC is not attempting to recreate the conditions of the big bang.
It is attempting to prove of disprove the existence of the Higgs boson. The energies required for this were last around in the early stages of the Universe.
The big bang is not really a theory any more. There is exceptional evidence for it. The expansion of the Universe, obviously but particularly the microwave background radiation which was predicted to be there from it and then found to within a few percent of what was predicted. You'll not find a professional astronomer to deny it these days.
The mini black holes thing is interesting. It was suggested quite a long time ago but no evidence for them has ever been found. Most particle physicists probably don't expect to see them but there are plenty who are hoping - probably a good outside bet if you're a gambler but don't bet the farm on it.
The Higgs particle is really important. It's the last really outstanding particle from the standard model and explains how particles come to have mass. We think we know where it is so even if it's not found that's really important too as it means that a lot of things are wrong and need rethinking.
But don't hold your breath for an announcement on September 11 (it starts off on the 10th ) Finding the important event in the ocean of data that will need to be processed is a mamoth task - there's enough data to fill 100,000 DVDs a year from each experiment!
Probably the planet's biggest computer challenge
The LHC is not attempting to recreate the conditions of the big bang.
It is attempting to prove of disprove the existence of the Higgs boson. The energies required for this were last around in the early stages of the Universe.
The big bang is not really a theory any more. There is exceptional evidence for it. The expansion of the Universe, obviously but particularly the microwave background radiation which was predicted to be there from it and then found to within a few percent of what was predicted. You'll not find a professional astronomer to deny it these days.
The mini black holes thing is interesting. It was suggested quite a long time ago but no evidence for them has ever been found. Most particle physicists probably don't expect to see them but there are plenty who are hoping - probably a good outside bet if you're a gambler but don't bet the farm on it.
The Higgs particle is really important. It's the last really outstanding particle from the standard model and explains how particles come to have mass. We think we know where it is so even if it's not found that's really important too as it means that a lot of things are wrong and need rethinking.
But don't hold your breath for an announcement on September 11 (it starts off on the 10th ) Finding the important event in the ocean of data that will need to be processed is a mamoth task - there's enough data to fill 100,000 DVDs a year from each experiment!
Probably the planet's biggest computer challenge
Thanks for your answers - very interesting indeed. Jake, in essence, isn't the LHC taking particles, speeding them up to mind-blggling velocities, then making them collide? How can the resulting impact provide so much data as to fill soooo many DVDs?? I imagine a couple of white coated beardy types sitting in a darkened room saything things like "Did you see that?" and the other, stroking his beard (possibly smoking a pipe), saying "Yes, I do believe it was a Higgs Bosun!". Incidentally, what type of particles are they colliding? An on the Big Bang front, if the universe was created from a singularity, and all matter was expelled at, or close to, the speed of light, surely the universe should be empty in the centre with all the matter being propelled outwards at the fringes - like a balloon inflating? I thank you for your patience!
The LHC accelelerates two beams of protons travelling in opposite directions to almost the speed of light then collides the beams.
The total energy carried by the two proton beams is equivalent to the detonation energy of 173 kilograms of TNT or the kinetic energy of a TGV (French high-speed train) running at 222 km/h.
This energy is carried by the equivalent of one nanogram (1.0�10-9 grams) of hydrogen, which, at standard temperature and pressure, would fill the volume of one grain of fine sand.
Due to the effects of Relativity resulting from their high velocity, the mass of the protons is increased to more than a hundred times their rest mass.
The total energy carried by the two proton beams is equivalent to the detonation energy of 173 kilograms of TNT or the kinetic energy of a TGV (French high-speed train) running at 222 km/h.
This energy is carried by the equivalent of one nanogram (1.0�10-9 grams) of hydrogen, which, at standard temperature and pressure, would fill the volume of one grain of fine sand.
Due to the effects of Relativity resulting from their high velocity, the mass of the protons is increased to more than a hundred times their rest mass.
Well you know E=mc� ?atomic bombs? destruction of matter releasing energy?
Well it works in reverse too. Smashing protons together with an immense energy generates particles - trouble is you have no control over which particles and there are thousands of possibilities.
So first you have to detect what particles are produced and at what energies. That means you have to monitor every bit of space around the event.
At the LHC this is done by ATLAS the worlds largest scientific instrument
http://www.physics.upenn.edu/research/images/a tlas_nov2005_v2.jpg
Remember every shot can have many many interactions with particles flashing in and out of existance and interacting with other particles
Then you have to work out if the result is interesting - then you have to repeat - a lot. Finally you may just manage to filter out from the billions of billions of interactions a couple of Higgs events.
This has been in the planning for over 20 years - you wouldn't want to switch it on and go "yup there it is" would you?
Well it works in reverse too. Smashing protons together with an immense energy generates particles - trouble is you have no control over which particles and there are thousands of possibilities.
So first you have to detect what particles are produced and at what energies. That means you have to monitor every bit of space around the event.
At the LHC this is done by ATLAS the worlds largest scientific instrument
http://www.physics.upenn.edu/research/images/a tlas_nov2005_v2.jpg
Remember every shot can have many many interactions with particles flashing in and out of existance and interacting with other particles
Then you have to work out if the result is interesting - then you have to repeat - a lot. Finally you may just manage to filter out from the billions of billions of interactions a couple of Higgs events.
This has been in the planning for over 20 years - you wouldn't want to switch it on and go "yup there it is" would you?
Re: Big Bang Balloon . . .
Visualising the Big Bang is difficult to relate to common experience or from our direct perception of the fragment of the universe which lies within our perceptual field. As we look out past our nose and hands, out the window, to the trees, mountains and sky beyond we are looking at the current state of the evolution of the Big Bang, its matter and energy dispersed by distance through space and time. The time aspect becomes apparent as we look beyond to the Sun, planets and stars. We see them not where they are now but where they were when the light which provides evidence of their existence first embarked on it journey towards our eyes.
The most distant part of the universe we are able to �see� is the light that was first liberated millions of years after the big bang event when the universe first became transparent. The light we now see, (in the form of microwave radiation), coming to us from all directions around us is the portion that began its journey towards us 13gly�s ago. The universe all around us, even beyond the sphere from which the mbr is just now reaching us, is completely bathed in this background radiation.
If you were to be instantly transported to a point on this sphere of light that envelops us you would observe, not a curtain of light, but a very similar picture to what we observe here from Earth. Stars, many with planets and galaxies stretching our for as far as you could see with a sphere of the mbr from 13gly�s ago (relative to your current position) enveloping you from every direction. The objects and events you observed in this location from Earth, however, would have taken place 13bly�s ago and so you would not see the same things even though you got here instantly.
Visualising the Big Bang is difficult to relate to common experience or from our direct perception of the fragment of the universe which lies within our perceptual field. As we look out past our nose and hands, out the window, to the trees, mountains and sky beyond we are looking at the current state of the evolution of the Big Bang, its matter and energy dispersed by distance through space and time. The time aspect becomes apparent as we look beyond to the Sun, planets and stars. We see them not where they are now but where they were when the light which provides evidence of their existence first embarked on it journey towards our eyes.
The most distant part of the universe we are able to �see� is the light that was first liberated millions of years after the big bang event when the universe first became transparent. The light we now see, (in the form of microwave radiation), coming to us from all directions around us is the portion that began its journey towards us 13gly�s ago. The universe all around us, even beyond the sphere from which the mbr is just now reaching us, is completely bathed in this background radiation.
If you were to be instantly transported to a point on this sphere of light that envelops us you would observe, not a curtain of light, but a very similar picture to what we observe here from Earth. Stars, many with planets and galaxies stretching our for as far as you could see with a sphere of the mbr from 13gly�s ago (relative to your current position) enveloping you from every direction. The objects and events you observed in this location from Earth, however, would have taken place 13bly�s ago and so you would not see the same things even though you got here instantly.
The balloon analogy is easily misinterpreted. The inside or outside of the balloon are not applicable to universal expansion, only the skin. If you put a blue dot on the surface of the balloon along with several black dots at random intervals around it and inflate the balloon the dots furthest from the blue dot will separate or move away from the blue dot at rates in proportion to their distance. A circle drawn with the blue dot at its centre would represent the distance light has traveled since the universe became transparent and its size would grow over time as the universe/balloon expanded.
If you were able to travel along the surface of this balloon/universe, beyond the circle you first drew, you could plot a new circle representing the visual light horizon of your current position. Continuing your travels around the balloon you would eventually arrive back at the destination of your departure. This is about as far as the analogy goes unless you can also visualise the expansion taking place not just along the surface of the balloon, but in all directions.
There is no partitioning of the universe, only the limitation of our view as determined by how far light has travel since the time it first took flight.
If you were able to travel along the surface of this balloon/universe, beyond the circle you first drew, you could plot a new circle representing the visual light horizon of your current position. Continuing your travels around the balloon you would eventually arrive back at the destination of your departure. This is about as far as the analogy goes unless you can also visualise the expansion taking place not just along the surface of the balloon, but in all directions.
There is no partitioning of the universe, only the limitation of our view as determined by how far light has travel since the time it first took flight.
Selecting the 'right' tea . . . that is, for me, a truly mind boggling proposition! After narrowing the field down by eliminating those I definitely don't want and having consumed too much time already with that phase of the decision making process, I typically resort to eeny, meeny, miny, moe . . .
Yet in a clear summer evening I have no problem finding my favorite teapot
Yet in a clear summer evening I have no problem finding my favorite teapot
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