Space, time, infinity and all that stuff...

[AndiFlatland]

"Space is what stops everything from being in the same place"

"Time is what stops everything from happening at once"

"Space cannot be infinite - if it was, there would not be any matter in it"

Anybody feel like discussing these?

[jake-the-peg]

Not quite sure I get what you're trying to say.

Your definitions seem to be somewhat circular.

For example if two events are not seperated by distance we say that they are in the same place. If they are not seperated in time we say that they happen together.

I don't think your third holds any water- why? can you not conceive of an infinite universe containing matter.

Modern cosmological thought tends to favour an "open" Ie an infinite Universe so you're fighting uphill on that.

Putting that to one side think of this situation.

I am in a spacecraft half-way betwenn the Earth and the moon.

I see an explosion on the moon at the same time as I see an explosion on the Earth.

Yet because of the speed of light observers on the moon see the explosion on the Earth after the one on the moon and vice versa.

Do these two explosions happen "at once"?

How does that affect your second assertion?

[AndiFlatland]

OK, interesting answer. Thanks for taking the trouble to think about it!

The first 2 are thoughts that I've had going round my head for ages, and were really just an amusing way of seeing things.

Obviously, if there was no such thing as space, then all the matter in the universe would all be concentrated at one incredibly tiny point.

By the same token, everything that could possibly happen in the universe would all have to happen at once, if there were no such thing as time.

It all sounds like how things were at the moment of the big bang. I always found it amusing to wonder what life might be like at that impossibly frantic and crowded moment.

The third one is a bit more strange. It's always seemed to me that there can only be one infinity, and that to qualify for infinity, there would have to be nothing at all in it. Even the existence of one single atom would surely mean that the status of infinity would be lost.

However, I suppose there could be a case for arguing that both space and matter could be infinite within two parallel infinities!?!?

The one about the explosions on the Earth and the moon is an old conundrum, and I think the best that can be said about that is that time is a local phenomenon which loses its logic as things get separated further and further. Look at the odd things we have to do to coordinate our activities across the few thousand miles of the surface of the Earth, and the opposing concepts of June and December in the northern and southern hemispheres. How will that pan out across the solar system, the galaxy, or between distant galaxies? Assuming we ever get there, of course.

This also suggests that time may even be a virus to which human brains are particularly susceptible!

[joggerjayne]

Time doesn't stop everything happening all at once. "Time" enables us to differentiate between different events by reference to an arbitrary system of measurement which, as a model, uses the assumption that "time" must represent a linear sequence of successive changes. But "time" in that sense probably exists only here on Earth. The rest of the Universe may have no regard at all for the system of measurement that we have chosen to regard as "time".

[AndiFlatland]

That, my friend, only serves to highlight your bull-arsed ignorance. Go back to the sandpit.

[AndiFlatland]

Sorry, that response was directed at Mr no.knoledge - joggerjayne's response came in as I was keying it in.

[zig.zag]

barr a few time disambiguation,s

[jake-the-peg]

You really need to read up on a few things - you're retracing some of the most interesting developments of the 19th and early twentieth Century - and unfortunately reaching incorrect conclusions.

The reason I mentioned the bit about the explosions on the moon and Earth was as a starter to special relativity - where we come to the conclusion that there is no absolute time. Time for one observer can be quite different for another.

As regard to infinities You should look at Gregor Cantor's work where he showed that there is more than one type of infinity - and some are larger than others.


Try this website and see what you think

http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people/patricia/ lctoc.html

[Rev. Green]

You might like to think of this:
Consider a sphere 1,000,000 kilometers in radius with us at the centre. Now consider one with twice the radius, it will have about four times the area. Keep doubling the radius and the area will keep quadrupling - for a while.
When you reach a very large sphere, you see a sphere that existed long ago and so it will be smaller that you would expect. Keep increasing the radius and you will see very small spheres! Eventually, the sphere with largest diameter would have zero surface area - you would see the Big Bang in whichever direction you looked (Overlooking the fact that the Universe wasn't transparent to photons then.)