Soy products

[237SJ]

If soy products have oestrogen mimicing qualities as post-menopausal guides always state and somebody has an oestrogen responsive condition such as breast cancer or fibroids, shouldn`t soy products be avoided like the plague rather than lauded? Any opinion Sqad? Have any tests been carried out to substatiate this?

[rowanwitch]

just had a quick check though some journal sites....nothing conclusive but there seems a suggestion that phyto(plant) oestrogens actually bind onto receptor sites thereby blocking the harmful effects of human oestrogen....this seems to tally with lower incidence of the disease in countries where there is a higher intake of plant oestrogens from soya rich fooods e.g China and Japan There does not seem to be any evidence for avoiding soya or other similar foods at the levels they are used in a western diet... among sources checked American journal of Nutrition, Sprecher institute at Cornell university,

[237SJ]

Thanks. If soy products block the body`s receptors to oestrogen, why do alternative practitioners recommend soy for menopausal symptoms? I wonder if the medical field would recommend it? I`ve always had a theory that the reasons people from the Far East don`t get so much breast cancer is because they are naturally small breasted so less tissue there in the first place (ever seen the bras for sale in those countries? About 2 inches of padding), they don`t drink huge quantites of alcohol and they are not obese (both contributors). Interesting. I think more research needs to be done.

[rowanwitch]

The phyto oestrogens mimic the effect of human oestrogen and in menopause they simply act to top up levels to nearer the pre menopausal state, it looks like there are a few serious trials going on at the moment and it will be interesting to see what comes out in the next few years...unfortunately some of the trials are very long term 10+ years

[237SJ]

Which brings me back to the question. If they mimic the effect of oestrogen and top them up to pre-menopausal levels, would someone with a oestrogen responsive condition avoid them? My mum and her sister have had oestrogen responsive breast cancer so when I get to the menopause I would not take HRT and therefore soy products. I have had a large fibroid as well (was embollised but still there only smaller) which would probably shrink at menupause but who knows if it would if I throw lots of soy products down my throat? Like you say tests will probably take years and it would be very interesting to see their conclusion

[rowanwitch]

From what I've read it looks like the amount of soya in a normal diet is ok but I wouldn't actually add extra soya rich foods to my diet

[coccinelle]

Can I ask a question 237, how do you know your Mum and aunt had oestrogen responsive breast cancer? My Mum died of breast cancer so how will I find out if it was oestrogen responsive?

[237SJ]

They are both on oestrogen blocking drugs (Arimidex)
Sorry about your mum x

[coccinelle]

So what other breast cancers are there? or is it just the oestrogen responsive and the oestrogen non-responsive?

[237SJ]

I`m no expert I`m afraid so I wouldn`t want to make statements about different cancers. Did you ever know your mother`s breast-care nurse? Maybe she could help if you want to know abour your mum`s illness although I`m not sure how that works regarding the data protection act.

[coccinelle]

Ok 237, but it was 4 years ago so might be difficult.

[Sqad]

237SJ...sorry I have only just seen your thread.

I have read all the posts which are impressive and I feel that I cannot anything further.
I can so no properly conducted therapeutic trials which would suggest that oestrogens in Soy,would "invigorate" an oestrogen sensitive breast cancer, quite the opposite in that certain trials show that Soy inhibits oestrogen sensitive breast tumours.

Whenever there is a conflict like this in the medical field, then the upshot that there is no definitive answer.

I am a clinician rather than a scientist, but there are to scientists on AB,,,Lazygun and the prof and I will send a fao for them.