help needed still for surname williams

[booboo67]

hi
i posted a Q on here sometime ago trying to trace the background/family of my G.grandfather.
on his wedding cert from 1916 it has him as albert arthur williams age 24 as a pastrycook/journeyman(which i now know means an apprentice) his father is albert williams and he was a farm baliff.
from my previous post and answers i think craft said that a farm baliff was a strange job for a londoner, so i started looking for births in farming counties.
this proved nothing!! there were too many
so, this morning i have received his death certificate and it says he was born 17th may 1890 (which would have made him 26 when married not 24, but i now ages dont always match up) and it said his place of birth was Ely cambridgeshire.
i have searched and searched but cannot find anything conclusive.
can anyone throw an extra/different pair of eyes on it?
thanks in advance for any help

[dotty.]

who was te informant on the death certificate?

[booboo67]

Hi dotty
It was his wife Henrietta.
I have successfully gone back on every branch of my tree except for the Williams. When I have got stuck at the very first huurdle

[dotty.]

there is definately some kind of mis-information here, whether it is the name, the date/place of birth or the father's name i am not sure yet, but, i do have an idea and i am looking at it, what might be useful is if you have any idea on any siblings your G Grandfather may have had.

[Jumbo747]

What was the date of death please?

[dotty.]

I've taken the date of death as Q2 1972 in lewisham but any hints on ancestry just bring up a arthur albert not albert arthur, but there is a possibility that the link to the father brings in a birth, but i'm still looking, any input would be helpful.

[booboo67]

thanks for the help so far.
his death was 1972 in lewisham. and on his death cert as on his marriage cert it cites his name as albert arthur.
on the marriage cert his father is just albert and the witnesses are S A Waller
and A E Blake.
i know of no other family member names ie. siblings
his son was named albert george so maybe the george bit could be a clue to his fathers name?
its funny you should say that maybe he is arthur albert because i found an army record in the name of arthur albert williams on ancestry and it looks like the name was written albert williams and then as an after thought the name arthur was inserted in front of it.
so perhaps i should be looking for arthur albert williams born 1890/2 from cambridgeshire?
thanks again in advance to any help given

[booboo67]

The military record in the name of Arthur Albert is not right..
It was aug 1915 when it was signed and it says he's married.
My Albert/Arthur was married in 1916

[dotty.]

I think I might have found him, though the ages aren;t quite right, but alot of the other detail is, on the 1901 I've found an Albert Williams aged 30 born wisbech, cambridgeshire a butcher , wife Ada G Williams, aged 24 with 2 sons, though possibly the eldest son was not ada's child as he is 7, but it is George A. williams aged 7 and Bertie A Williams aged 5, they are living in the isle of ely district and all born wisbech.

[booboo67]

hi dotty
thanks for your input!
i had found that same family but ruled it out because of the totall different name, but seeing as albert williams is not anywhere to be found, i think that maybe that wasnt his name even though it says it on marriage and death certs.
i found a marriage for albert williams and ada grace spriggs in oct 1892 it comes up in a search for albert williams but not ada grace spriggs, but if i go into it manually it has the same volume and page no.
george a was born in 1894, so ada could be the mother at 17 years old, but that means she was married at 15!
i'll go with this family for now and see what happens
thanks again for your help

[dotty.]

yes the ancestry index has missed ada off but of course she is in the original gro index and her reference matches albert williams. the legal age was 12 for girls then and it was possible she married at 15 especially in a rural community, (didn't need imams arranging under age marriages back then ) it does tie in in alot of ways, i did look at the Bertie Augustus birth, as Augustus could easily be changed to Arthur? good luck, see what turns up.

[dotty.]

I think Ada G Spriggs may have been a servant in West Ham on the 1891 aged 15 born Thorney, Cambridgeshire, does that make sense?

[booboo67]

i saw that dotty.
if it is her then she was back home in cambridgeshire by the next census.
i've been looking at the family all day! what a web! its true about people in villages in norfolk!!!
ada graces mother went from unmarried with 3 children and in a union house to marrying 3 husbands, one of them being her daughter ada's father in law!
then one of her husbands sons married ada's sister in law.
my family tree has got so many 'crossed' lines on it, i'm confused!
no wonder my G.grandfather albert williams changed his name and got out of it all!!

[dotty.]

mmm what are the possibilities that she turned up back from London pregnant with George? how close are those dates?

[booboo67]

o yeah :)
i knew i'd get a different perspective on it from your good self.
on his death cert his wife has put his DOB as may 1890 (and she lived with him for 50 odd years so you would like to think that is correct)
ada was a 'servant' in 1891 in london
so, she could either gone there to have him and wasnt a servant at all or like you said came back from london pregnant giving the 1894 date.
lol, i'm doing nothing this evening so i may as well dig a little more
tks dotty :)

[booboo67]

the wife of the palmer household where she was a servant was from wisbech!
and little ada was just 15
the palmers had 2 sons george 16 and arthur 14
so its still viable for both stories

[dotty.]

lol yes, george or arthur could have been the father of errrr well george or arthur lol dig abit more into the palmers, that may be intersting. some of my lot are lincolnshire and that is just the same!