Went Shopping For A New Bathroom And Kitchen

[renegadefm]

Last year me and partner decided it was time we had a new bathroom and kitchen.

Nothing had been done to either rooms for 30 years, do went to B&Q, as they offered to do it on zero percent finance with Creation.

 

For both bathroom and kitchen its costed £25.000, so spending that kind of money we want things done right.

 

Work on the bathroom started on Friday, but we are already dismayed by the guy B&Q has hired as he's decided not to chip off the old tiles, and he's going to tile over them.

 

We decided to do away with the bath and have a walk in shower. 

 

I know it's early days into the renovation but let's just say his work seems less than of a high standard. 

 

Now here is my main question. If we are not happy with the finished product of either the bathroom or kitchen or both, where do we stand in terms of guarantee?

 

Could we make them rip it out and start again, I just don't know where I stand. 

 

I emailed my concerns to the boss of B&Q where we first had the plans drawn up about the non removal of old tiles, but they replied back and said that's normal and not to worry, things should be alright.

 

Should I be worried? 

[Canary42]

What a ghastly experience. I recently toyed with the idea of a new kitchen fro B&Q, but what put me off was a plethora of notices in the store trying to recruit installers.  They were obviously IMHO unprepared, and would most likely in their desperation take on a few cowboys. It seems I was right. I hope you get it sorted, I guess you will need to study the small print in the contract to find where you stand. Or possibly TheBuilder will pop in later, or tomorrow, with a more qualified view than I can offer. 

[Cloverjo]

Have you paid it all in advance? 
If not, withhold payment until things shape up. Tiling over the old tiles is massively lazy and shows the man has no pride in his work. 
 

Best to make your feelings clear now, rather than wait for arguments later. 

[RandyMarsh]

Product or service has to be as advertised and fit for purpose. 

[Barsel]

I think the reason they tile over tiles is because there is the chance some of the plaster will come off with the old tiles that they would then need to repair before putting the new ones on plus, taking tiles off is probably a noisy and dusty job as well.

[Canary42]

Having done it myself in my DIY days, I can confirm removing tiles is a dreadful job, messy and dirty, and frequently leaves a lot of repair work needed on the underlying surface before replacement can commence.

But I wouldn't dream of a second layer of tiles although I have heard it said that it can be carried out successfully.

[renegadefm]

What we found strange is where the bath was hes had to plaster the wall to make it level with the tiles. And an old built in cupboard, hes also had to plaster the wall to bring it out level with the old tiles. But surely it's easier just to rip off the old tiles and plaster the lot. 

The bathroom alone is costing close to 13 thousand. It doesn't feel like that kind of quality at the moment. 

 

Oh and to answer someone is it paid yet, yes it is as it was done on finance by zero interest, by a company called Creation which B&Q use. So B&Q have already been paid otherwise we wouldn't have the materials and work wouldn't have started. Baring in mind we been waiting for work to start since October. 

[barry1010]

I would never tile over tiles.  Where would it end?  

What other bath/toilet facilities have you got?

[renegadefm]

barry1010, 

Well we used to stand in the bath and shower as we rarly used the bath. 

So we are going to have just a proper stand in shower fitted. 

New toilet, new everything once it's done. 

Currently we are using our neighbours outside toilet and that's it. We been told the bathroom should be completed in 2 weeks. 

Then the kitchen starts. 

[THECORBYLOON]

In this B & Q video about re-tiling a kitchen, they say they've already removed the old tiles. It's from ten year ago so they could argue the practice has changed since then.

?si=HvI1kJOEpdz7fmCe

[Dizmo]

To add to TCL's answer, B&Q state on certain 'product pages' on the diy.com website (NI INSTALL SPEC TILING PER SQM RED RATE), under 'Features and benefits', one of the benefits to using B&Q is that they do not tile onto existing tiles.

I'm not sure how helpful this page is, nor do I know how old it is.

https://www.diy.com/departments/ni-install-spec-tiling-per-sqm-red-rate/1157237_BQ.prd

[THECORBYLOON]

https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/blog/can-you-tile-over-existing-tiles

Amongst other things they say,

"Negatives

One of the main reasons tiling over your existing tiles isn’t a go-to solution is the finish they achieve.  Creating an additional layer of tiles can massively affect the overall finish."

 

[THECORBYLOON]

In B&Q's guide to preparing the bathroom wall,

"Step 1
Remove any existing tiles or wallpaper from the wall. Using a stripping knife for the wallpaper."

https://www.diy.com/ideas-advice/how-to-plan-wall-tiles/PROD_npcart_100287.art

 

 

 

[Dizmo]

Also, how long is the bathroom and kitchen under warranty?

You may not have any issues for years, however after a while the tiles underneath may become loose, from the weight of the new tiles or just because they've been on the wall for 30 years (if water has got behind even a single tile, all of them could eventually come loose).

If there's a problem, will B&Q contract someone to put the problem right, free of charge? I'd want to know the answer to those two questions.

[barry1010]

Phone B&Q and insist the tiles are removed. Complain loudly 

[THECORBYLOON]

If I were spending £13,000 on anything, I'd not be happy with, "things should be all right".

[douglas9401]

Witholding payment from the finance company won't influence B&Q and could end up with drama for you down the line.

[barry1010]

You should be covered by s.75 of the Consumer Credit Act because you used a point of sale loan - this means that the finance company is just as liable as B&Q.  You could complain to them if the work is not being done as agreed and to your satisfaction. 

 

[Ellipsis]

Tiling over tiles is what an amateur would do. Is there a contract and what does it say? If it's a £13K project, then whoever priced it up should have specified both the products and the tasks to come up with that price.

[The Builder]

Of course we can't know just what was stated in the agreement, but generally, it 'll be something like this:

You have a contract with the finance company. They lend you the money. They have no interest in what you spend it on. They are not concerned with the warranty. Any approach to them is likely to be fruitless. They've effectively done their job.

We don't know, but  it's likely you are dealing with the tradesman separately. Any dispute over workmanship will probably be batted away by B&Q by telling you to address the workman.

B&Q's warranty will be carefully worded to cover only the supply of equipment. I would doubt if there is anything in their agreement with you covering workmanship.

On the other hand, they may have a 'Duty of Care' here. The trouble is, only legal advice can show that to apply in this case. My layman's experience tells me B&Q's agreement will be carefully worded to exclude responsibility over workmanship.

In short, except for faulty kitchen and bathroom materials, Your beef is with the tradesman. Don't expect any help from the finance company or B&Q.

As I said, there may well be a 'Duty of Care', but it may well depend on the agreement.

Too early in the job to be too gloomy though. Don't let the 'tiling over' wind you up. Providing the sub-strate is solid, it's still a mechanically sound way of doing things, although in this case a pretty dopey way of going about it. With a completely bare bathroom, it's daft having to make up plaster thickness just to avoid removing tiles and doing a bit of re-plastering.

See how he goes along with the job, and most importantly, how he finishes it.

Don't panic.

 

[davebro3]

Probably better to employ a local company with total responsibility for supply & fitting. IMV