battery or free-range eggs?

[mr_pointment]

what do you prefere?i know some people might think its cruel to keep chickens cooped up,but i've always found that battery chickens eggs are always fresher and much tastier.

[joko]

battery farming for a start!

what a stupid thing to say!

how about -

wars

politicians spin

wholesale animal slaughter

animal testing for cosmetics

vivisection

fox hunting

cars spewing out poisonous fumes

passive smoking

some domestic abuse

religious hatred

mental abuse

eating live monkey brains

bullying

being a racist

the kkk

being sexist

being mysogynistic

being bigoted

neglect

overcharging

circus and zoo animal cruelty (as long as its not extreme, the odd beating is fine apparently!)

used to be fine to beat school kids with cane and slippers too.

noisy neighbours

abusive neighbours

gangs of thugs

scumbag smackheads having kids

people get away with all sorts of things every day - the newspapers are brimming with tales of injustice and outrage - because although everyone can see its wrong the letter of the law doesn't recognise it.

most of the above only become a police/legal matter if the people involved commit another crime because of it, such as a neighbour who has endured years or torment, and finally flips and smashes a window or beats some one up...but they are all 'wrong'

i could probably list many more and i am sure others could add to this list but i can't be bothered if you are that blinkered to think the law covers all rights and wrongs!

[spacechimp]

there are some other annoying things such as:

repeating the same thing in a different way

saying something with identical meaning in an alternative form

making a point several times, but with different phrasing

using different words to make a statement with the same meaning and then repeating it

[joko]

would you care to point them out to me?

you can copy and paste and highlight the same things.

things that are similar are not the same thing - hence the word similar. For instance, not all racists are members of a racist organisation.

the post was about things that are wrong but not illegal, not annoying, try to keep up.

don't try to be a smartarse, it doesn't suit you

[surfbabe]

well done joko i totally agree!

[spacechimp]

wars... necessary in some circumstances

policians spin... unhelpful but not wrong (unless it's actually illegal)

wholesale animal slaughter... couldn't bother me less

animal testing for cosmetics... illegal in this country

vivisection (I'm assuming on animals)... necessary if it helps to sustain the human race

fox hunting... just a tradition

cars spewing out poisonous fumes... shouldn't be encouraged but is necessary if we want to maintain our current lifestyles

passive smoking (that's 1 I agree with)

some domestic abuse... care to expand on that?

religious hatred... I really do despise each and every religion in existence

mental abuse... care to expand on that?

eating live monkey brains... surely not legal in this country...?

bullying... builds character? barely a problem...?

being a racist... none of my business unless you start acting on your feelings and discriminating

the KKK... covered by above point

being sexist... your personal views are none of my business unless you start acting on your feelings and discrimating. unless you mean opening doors for women (or men?) and thinking that women (or men?) are stupid which really isn't a big issue and your private views are none of my business

misogyny... same as above for all intensive purposes, except for the absence of misandry - I assume this was unintentional...?

bigotry... too general

neglect... too general

overcharging... hardly top of my hate list

[spacechimp]

circus and zoo... anything which really harms the animals is illegal

used to be fine to beat children... USED, I can think of numerous things which used to be fine in this country... slavery, capital punishment, domestic abuse, undemocratically elected parliament, torture...

noisy neighbours... abusive neighbours... gangs of thugs> ASBO

scumbag smackheads having kids... I believe being a smackhead is illegal ^^



thank you for just forcing me to waste a large amount of your time, my time and the time of anybody else who bothered to read it.

[joko]

are you still at school by any chance chimp?
only a child could respond in such an idiotic & childish way.
your 'answers' are frankly laughable, feeble & desperate.
do you honestly think that you have successfully rebutted my statements with that garbage?
do you think because you personally don't care about something that its ok??
Your opinion couldn�t matter less � the things mentioned are still wrong!
what part of the term 'abuse' don't you understand that you need it to be elaborated on?
you need to grow up & get an education & get your arrogant schoolboy brain into gear.

wars... necessary in some circumstances � maybe, but not all, most are wrong so your statement is uneducated
politcians spin... unhelpful but not wrong (unless it's actually illegal) � very very wrong!! There are millions of people who would disagree with you - so your statement is irrelevant
wholesale animal slaughter... couldn't bother me less � who cares what you think? you are unimportant.
vivisection ... necessary if it helps to sustain the human race � it generally doesn�t help. Try a bit of research! - answer irrelevant
fox hunting... just a tradition � it�s just been banned so must have been wrong, right? utterly stupid thing to say � ill-informed!

[joko]

cars spewing out poisonous fumes... shouldn't be encouraged but is necessary if we want to maintain our current lifestyles � the motives aren�t the issue � its still wrong. Irrelevant!
some domestic abuse... care to expand on that? It�s written in plain English. There are different levels of abuse but all are wrong � where in your tiny brain is abuse ever ok? So your statement is irrelevant - again
mental abuse... care to expand on that? � see other
eating live monkey brains... surely not legal in this country...? � yes, but it happens & is not illegal
bullying... builds character? barely a problem...? you are an absolute cretin. Get an education for your own sake. Ignorant!
being a racist... none of my business unless you start acting on your feelings & discriminating � that�s the bloody point! They do! Durr! Ill-informed!
the KKK... covered by above point � see above
being sexist... your personal views are none of my business unless you start acting on your feelings & discrimating. unless you mean opening doors for women (or men?) & thinking that women (or men?) are stupid which really isn't a big issue & your private views are none of my business � you're right its none of your business. What in your arrogant little brain make you think all this is about you & your opinion � your opinion doesn�t count - your statement is irrelevant.

[joko]

misogyny... same as above for all intensive purposes, except for the absence of misandry - I assume this was unintentional...? � as I said this isn�t about your opinion, its about what is morally wrong � why is that so hard for you to grasp.
bigotry... too general - still wrong, general or not � lame.
neglect... too general � see above
overcharging... hardly top of my hate list � who cares about your hate list � irrelevant
circus & zoo... anything which really harms the animals is illegal � but a bit of harm is ok? NO, pointless statement
used to be fine to beat children... USED, I can think of numerous things which used to be fine in this country... slavery, capital punishment, domestic abuse, undemocratically elected parliament, torture... � yes & all were wrong!! You are confirming my point! you said nothing wrong could be legal!!
noisy neighbours... abusive neighbours... gangs of thugs> ASBO � not all thugs have asbos. Feeble argument
scumbag smackheads having kids... I believe being a smackhead is illegal - I said them having kids, not being one - statement irrelevant
Your whole answer is mindless nonsense - you have not proved that any of the above is not wrong with that load of crap, so you wasted your own time � go & get on with your homework there's a good boy�
Don�t bother to reply as nothing from your mouth could possibly convince me or anyone else.

[spacechimp]

Sadly Joko, saying "who cares what you think?" is ridiculous, because the entire list was, if you look back, about what "I think is wrong". I'm not going to be pathetic and resort to personal insults (as you have done) but looking through, most of your points are wrong. Just picking a couple of obvious ones: fox hunting has not been banned (if it had, why would it be on your list...?) and if racists do start to discriminate, it becomes illegal. How is trying to patronise the other person in a debate victory in your mind?

[mr_pointment]

can you pair go and argue on someone elses thread,your fillin my inbox up. lol

[joko]

Are you saying racism is ok as long as you don�t show it?
I notice you�ve been unable to answer any of my questions, or back up any of your arguments with anything even approaching a rational opinion.
Merely saying �I don�t care� or �too general� is hardly a conclusive & eloquent answer is it?
You sound like a sulky teenager.
And since when has any of this been about you & your personal feelings?
I said �lots of things are wrong but not illegal� The law is not infallible. You asked me to tell you what they were, & I did! Very simple � where do your personal feelings come into it?
And if you think inserting the words �that I think� means anything, it doesn�t -how would I know? How could I answer that?
This was never about what you think, it�s about what�s right and wrong!
I never asked you for your personal take on these matters � I�m not interested, & the fact that you think this is about you, & you don�t care about any of these things, says a lot about you, & means that anything you say simply cannot be given any credence.
When is abuse, prejudice and cruelty, on any level, ever right?
As for personal insults -you deserve them (though I didn�t say them purely to insult you, they are my opinion of you) -to say that bullying �builds character & isn�t a real problem� is idiotic, and demonstrates that you�re ill-educated � could�ve said it nicely but it would�ve amounted to the same thing.
Do you read papers, magazines, books, watch the news? Do you talk to others about their feelings? You show no evidence of it. I�d suggest you start. You shouldn�t come on here being an obnoxious know-it-all until you�ve lived a bit longer & are vastly more educated.
We must agree to disagree because there�s no point continuing this.
Though I'd welcome a genuine attempt to convince me that any of those things are right in any way whatsoever, not based on your opinion but on reality.

[spacechimp]

There you go again with the insults; saying that you think I deserve it doesn't make it right. I said that it wasn't my place to comment on people's personal opinions (something which you clearly have absolutely no problem with). I believe that people are entitled to their beliefs, however contrasting to my own those beliefs may be. Of course I watch the news and read - I'm on this site am I not? Trust me, I watch the news a lot more than other people I know; although I don't try to ridicule them for being ignorant. You say that you could not possibly answer what I thought, yet for some reason you tried to; not a very coherent argument you're putting forward is it?

Also, I not that you're not a great fan of sentences which flow properly. I would hate to speak to you in real life. (See what I mean - taking debates down to an immature, exchange of unfounded insults is really quite pointless).

I would like to make it clear that I do not think bullying is a good thing, I just don't think that it is one of the major evils of our society. When it rises to a level of physical abuse or threats (and becomes illegal) is when I feel it becomes a real problem. So...the point here being, that all there can be are our opinions; nothing either of us has said has been really factual. The original questioner asked what we preferred; if that doesn't justify an opinion then I'm not sure what does.

I would like to come to some sort of agreement though; lots of my responses to your list of wrongs, were made purely for the purpose of demonstrating that they could be made.

[spacechimp]

I don't like wars, spin, pointless cruelty*, global warming/pollution, hate passive smoking, domestic abuse, hatred of people because of their views, 'eating live monkey brains' (and I very much hope that's not having a dramatic effect on the monkey population), bullying as I've already said, racism/active racists, sexism, bigots, neglect, overcharging (although not a major evil), animal cruelty, past wrongs or antisocial behaviour.

Don't you sometimes think it can be productive to look at a subject from a different perspective? It stops us becoming narrow-minded. Maybe I should be a bit less argumentative, but I think you should try to be a bit more tolerant of other people's opinions. Well, this has been fun and perhaps a constructive activity for both of us (?)

[joko]

Well, I am glad to see you are finally admitting that the things on my list are not right after all, and whether you care about them or not, is not the issue.

And that you admit the you were being argumentative.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but you were stating them as fact and claiming that most of my list was ok behaviour! - that is why I asked you to put forward a coherent argument to support them - you couldn't.

I was not trying to answer you personally, as I keep saying, because as I stated I cannot know what you think (kind of a bizarre thing to ask someone else to do, don't you think?) I was answering with a list of the many things that are wrong - whether you thought they were too wasn't really the issue.
I also did not say some of these things were 'major evils', I said they wrong - big difference in levels, but wrong all the same.

and regarding the personal insults - they are not illegal so must be ok, right?
perhaps that should have been on my list...

looking at things from another perspective is good but the automatic gainsaying of what I said is not a debate, its trying to be argumentative and with subjects like war and racism, it just makes you seem cold and foolish.

Your responses to the list were not arguments to support your feelings they were just saying 'i'm not bothered', which doesn't really hold much water.

however, I am glad we have agreed to agree (sort of) and would much prefer to think of you as an argumentive little &*%$�, than an insensitive, ill-educated, belligerent teenager.

peace.

[spacechimp]

Just a couple of points, before we wrap this up. Your argument didn't have any factual support either and did you have to put teenager at the end of your list of insults?

[joko]

Right and wrong is right and wrong - it doesn't need facts.
At least mine were actual arguments, not just pure belligerance with no real substance.

Are you not a teenager? You have not denied it so I assume I am right.

If you read it again properly, I was saying I had thought very badly of you, I thought you were all the things I said and more, but now I am glad to think better of you now I know you were just being argumentative. That is more of a compliment.

Stop now please, I am bored of this.

[spacechimp]

Yes, but you seem to think that your opinion of right and wrong is universally accepted, which I assure you it is not. How can you say I was being argumentative yet somehow not being actually argumentative? Yes, I'm a teenager, you are an adult. Difference here being, I wouldn't suggest that being an adult was a bad thing, as you do with regards being a teenager. (I knew that you meant that had been your opinion of me, but that doesn't make your use of teenager as an insult any beter)

[joko]

....yawn....

[spacechimp]

I'm glad you've come to realise what a stubborn pr*ck I am.