I need an answer about my cloned car

[heavensabove]

I saw an add for an Audi A4 S line 2006, I rang the seller and arranged a viewing. The seller arrived at my home with the car and all the documents, I did a check online and it came back clear, I checked the vin and other stuff and then took the car on a test run. Gorgeous car!!!! I then handed over �10,600 in cash and the car was mine!! Like hell it was...I took all documentations to local dvla to transfer my personal number plate over from my old car to my new one the following morning and thats when my dream turned into my biggest nightmare. There was no barcode on the logbook supplement and it was immediately spotted by the girl serving me. I was taken into a small room and informed that the car is a clone...cutting an agonisingly long story short my beautiful car was taken away on the back of a pickup truck, at that point I was �10,600 out of pocket. Now for my question. Apparently the car was stolen six weeks earlier and the insurance had already paid out, is it possible for me to buy the car from the insurance company ... at least that way I wont lose ten grand but spend more but I wont lose it competely.

[factor-fiction]

What an awful incident. What was the online check you did?

[chas2008]

you should be able to negotiate with the insurance company but it will depend on the company. I had it happen to me with an import !! turned out it had been stolen from the UK the previous year,i bought it from the ins. co to help minimise my losses.

[chas2008]

Factor30, i was thinking the same thing but then if it was cloned it would be checked against a perfectly legal vehicle and HPi does not give owners details just spec & history so the report would be 100% ok.

[redcrx]

how can the car be a clone if original was stolen? surely this is the car but the paperwork is cloned.

[factor-fiction]

chas- I was wondering what sort of online check had been done- was it an RAC check
?http://www.rac.co.uk/vehicle-checks/car-data-c heck/
That would tell you if car had had previous plates

redcrx- I assume the car was a clone- stolen or copied number plates (eg AAA111) attached to stolen car BBB222 so as to make it look like car AAA111. I got the impression the paperwork would have been a forgery

[redcrx]

aha i see now.

[redcrx]

actually, no i dont lol
doesnt a vehicle check also give the vin number of vehicle?

[chas2008]

crx, its been cloned with a legitimate identical vehicle, just a set of plates copied vin(easy to do ) false paperwork job done. Most of this wouldnt get past anyone in the trade and offering to deliver it is the biggest give away.

[heavensabove]

Thanks for all your help and comments....just to reiterate....the vin number which is stamped on the inside bonnet under windscreen had been removed and the new one stamped back on so matching the cloned paperwork....now not only cloned paperwork but cloned car as well new number plates exactly the same as the original car.....nice to know we may stand a chance of recovering our losses by buying back from insurance company.

[wilkesneil]

yes there is a way around this, i saw a program on tv where someone like you had bought a land rover and paid around �15k for it. When the insurance threatened to take oit back he fought back and agreed on a price for the car. He made a stupid offer of �1000 and they accepted. The car belongs to the insurance company as its been paid out but they will want some money back for it, so give it a go as you got nothing to lose.

[magicmerlin]

You ignored one golden rule of buying a second hand car from a private seller and that is 'always see the car at the sellers address'. That way you know that the sale is likely to be genuine. Also if the car is not parked on the drive make some excuse to enter the house, e.g. you need to use loo. The seller could live around the corner and may not want you to know exact address.

Also because the seller drove round to your house how do you know seller did not have trouble starting from cold.

'Caveat emptor' (Let the buyer beware)

My personal opinion is that you only have yourself to blame.

[heavensabove]

I dont need you or anyone else to tell me that im to blame...Iv just lost a lot of cash!!!! Yes I do blame my bloody self of course I do. Theres so much I wish I had done but didn't ...1....Hold the logbook up to the light to see the watermark.....2......Travel to his home address...Just like you said!!! 3, Ask for proof of ID, eg driving licence to match with logbook...and finally 4 never set my eyes on the car in the first place...and please may I remind you that I posted a question not to be judged but for a reasonable answer, please read it again and if you can offer me an answer then please do so. Just one more reminder....FACT....There are 40,000 victims of car cloning in the UK each year and the one I landed myself with just happened to be the best the police officers had ever seen. !!!!

[magicmerlin]

If you don't like the comments you should not have put all the details in the question. If you can't stand the heat don't go into the kitchen.

[heavensabove]

ok

[heavensabove]

oh by the way mr magic I really hope this kind of thing never happens to you! I am an intelligent individual and also very careful as a rule but I was done over by someone far cleverer than I.....could it be possible that you are even cleverer!!!!!

[magicmerlin]

The main point of my posting was to advise other ABers what steps to take so that they reduce the risk of being conned out of their hard earned cash. I trust you don't anybody else to suffer like you have.

[heavensabove]

You are correct.....my posting was detailed in order to warn people but my question was quite clear. Thanks for the sympathy anyway....not that Im after any!!

[jackmart]

What was the outcome with your cloned car. Were you able to buy back from insurance. I have owned car for 18months. Did last tax renewal online but no tax disc posted to me. Queried it and was issued with duplicate disc but then it was noticed car is registered to someone else. It is now being investigated by DvlA. Wondering where I stand if mine turns out to be stolen one.