Refusing to sign childs passport application

[Dom Tuk]

A colleague (who i got along well with) recently refused to countersign my childs passport (renewal!!!) photo as a true likeness as he 'had not seen my child'. I was taken aback as in my opinion unless one is present at the conception there is no way anyone can sign the child as being mine. nevertheless I waited for my revenge until yesterday when he shoved a paper under my nose requesting a donation for a charity and i declined saying 'how do i know that you will not pocket the cash'.Was i being overtly vengeful as my wife thinks. She says i should apologise. I dont think so. Any thoughts?

[Octavius]

My point is that other than offending this person for what might have been a genuine concern/reluctance or whatever, the charity has also missed out.  Your post infers that had he signed the photo you would have given to his charity.  Your 'revenge' was toi .

[Octavius]

AB playing silly wotsits again

[jno]

dead right, kempie, and I was wrong. (Sorry, Lillabet, should have read your post more attentively.) My guess is that Dom Tuk's colleague thought the same as I did. If so, he still did the right thing, refusing to do something he thought was breaking the law. At any rate, what he did doesn't sound like malice, and doesn't sound like being an up himself pillock. 

What Dom Tuk did was malicious - he says so. But as I said before, if he's not sorry, there's no point in saying he is.

[Dom Tuk]

So why is it acceptable for him to be cautious and not countersign the photo on the fear that I may be committing a fraud by asking him to sign....and unacceptable for me to be cautious by refusing to give him cash on the basis that he may be committing a fraud by pocketing it. Its a question of trust. If he does not trust me why should i trust him?.

[kempie]

Dom Tuk - Did he say to you that he thought you were commiting a fraud or is it possible that he refused to sign thinking (erroneously) that he would be committing the fraud (not knowing if the photo was a 'true likeness' etc.).

Is that not an acceptable reason even if based on a misunderstanding?

BTW I also think your response about 'pocketing the cash' was vindictive, which makes it by definition 'vengeful'.

[jno]

Dom Tuk, did you tell him that you were sure it was legally acceptable for him to sign the photo even though he did not know the child?

And did you actually believe he would pocket the cash, or even fear that he would?

[brachiopod]

You have automatically jumped to the conclusion that your colleague's refusal to sign as being a slight on you, and that he was indirectly accusing you of fraud. 

It is most likely that he was reluctant to make what he believed to be a 'false declaration' by signing the photo when he didn't know the child, and therefore commiting some form of illegal act himself. Since he works in 'law enforcement', this is entirely understandable.(We have since established that this is not actually necessary, so there's no need to go into it again - it is what your colleague believed to be the case that matters). I'm sure he wasn't implying that you are somehow trying to fraudulently renew your own son's passport.

Your reaction to his request for a donation was overtly vengeful, and compounded by the accusation of 'pocketing the cash'. And yes, has deprived a charity of a couple of quid. (You can't compare this request for a charitable donation with being accosted by a 'tin-rattler in the street - we all contribute to a work colleague's sponsor form - just like we all chuck a couple of quid in the bag when a colleague is leaving.)

If, however, you would not have contributed to his charity request anyway (regardless of the passport incident) due to your own, personal reasons with regard to charity donations, then you should have stated this, and not resorted to petty and vengeful remarks about his trustworthiness.

[Octavius]

I was going to say that

[butter1]

Dom Tuk, I think everyone could carry on forever telling you that you have been vindictive etc etc... but the main thing is, if I asked someone to countersign my childs (if I had one) passport and they refused...I personally would take offence to it - but I take things to heart and people react differently towards things... we are all different.  And can I point out, Octavius, everyone supports their own charity's and shouldn't be made to feel guilty or they have to support that certain one.  People have a choice in all circumstances.  So Dom Tuk, if you don't want to apologise then don't...If you don't mean it, then there is no point.

[Octavius]

Had Dom Tuk said "no sorry I won't support your charity as I already contribute to several others" then yes, but from the question it was refused as revenge.  We could go on and on, but I grow weary.

[Dark Angel]

Your colleague could have asked to see your child first and then countersigned the photograph, instead of just refusing. You were offended by his refusal and you wanted to offend him back.

Though I'm generally a polite person, if I'm offended enough by someone, I'm capable of doing the same, unfortunately.