Sick of Nelson Mandela Lies

[mycatis]

I am the only person who is sick of hearing Nelson Mandela described using words like "saint, hero inspiration" The man was a bloody terrorist do people not bother reading up on history? It makes me really angry when I hear all this cr*p

[graemer]

Hi mycatis. What brought this on after so many years? Ok he was a terrorist who did his time. He was then elected President and treated his "enemies" with dignity and compassion. I'd be happier if you'd direct your anger towards Mugabe and his treament of "his" people.

[mycatis]

Angry just now because someone was going on about him again on TV. Of course I'm disgusted about Mugabe and his behaviour, but I can't help wondering how long after a terrorist act can you be classed as a "hero"
Please don't think I dont agree with what he wanted I just dont think the end justifies the means, and call me cynical but the eyes of the world were on him when he got out and he knew it, dumped his mental wife quick enough when he had a political agenda. I just people would at least try to know his history instead of C-List celebs gushing about "the honour of meeting such a great man" etc
Sorry I've finished now :)

[graemer]

I undersatnd what you mean by the gushing celebrities who may have jumped on the bandwagon, but i can't help but think the end did justifies the means. If we're going to look deeply onto Sth Africa's history and the Steve Biko's etc i think we'll find a lot worse "terrorism" from the Government than the likes of Mandela.

[Octavius]

Nelso Mandela qualified as a lawyer, and along with two friends, formed the League of the African National Congress in 1944.   

Black resistance grew in South Africa with pass laws, which restricted where blacks could live and work, the focus of much resentment. Working behind the scenes, Mr Mandela organised strikes and demonstrations.

The Sharpeville massacre in 1960, which left 69 black demonstrators dead, forced the ANC underground.

The imprisonment of Nelson Mandela and the other leadership of the ANC was symbolic of the imprisonment of their people. Few of us can comprehend the depths of imprisonment of a people that apartheid represented.  The ANC was a banned organization. What that meant was not simply that you could be arrested for being a member or for carrying its banner. It went far beyond that.  You could be arrested for singing ANC songs. You could even be arrested for the simple act of speaking its name.

Nelson Mandela was caught by police after a year on the run and was convicted of treason in June 1964.

I don't like the idea of celebs jumping on the band wagon either. 

He sought to revitalize the ANC organization and helped in engaging in increasingly militant resistance to the apartheid policies of the ruling National to the but as graemer has said, now he has done his time and has reacted with compassion, and is now president.  Perhaps therefore he no longers needs to fight resistance through 'terrorism' as you call it to achieve freedom against an unjust political and social system.

[mycatis]

have given you 3*s Octavius cause whether I agree with everything people say or not at least you know what you're talking about :)

[graemer]

Thanks mycatis.

[mycatis]

Oh O.K!   You too Graemer :)

[Adampy]

Octavius you sure do know what your talking about. Altough I also agree with "Mycatis", Nelson Mandela is portaited on TV as such a wonderful person... Well... He might have done lots of things to help poverty and the needy, but what about the situations NOT shown on TV.

I lived in South Africa up until 3 years ago when at the age of 22, after just completing my first year employed as a graphic designer, was made redundent - AT 22 YEARS OLD!!!, This was due to the new legislation of equality of race. I was replaced by 3 black people who clearly had no qualifications what-so-ever!! This was not the fault of the company, they were forced to hire them.

Finding work after that was basically - impossible as all companies had to give the black people, previously dissadvantaged, first choice. I had to surrender my car to the bank, sell eveything I owned an move. Since then my father has also been made redundent - TWICE!

Now I am the furtherest thing from racist, but before everyone praises Mandela, take a closer look at what he has done. Crime rates have sky-rocketed, house prices have dropped due to "lovely shanty townships" popping up next door - which by the way have telephone lines, and electricty provided! Mostly free of charge becasue they have bypassed the meters. I am sure anyone who has been to South Africa would agree, it is amazingy beautiful, but will have been subjected to crime in one way or another.

I miss my old life there, but the ANC ruined any chance of it continuing there.

[Peter Pedant]

The world, my dears, is full of ex-terrorists who are now heads of state.

It is also I am afraid also full of heads of state who have both hands up to the elbows in the till.

I fell sorrier for the Zimbabweans of all shades and colours

[mycatis]

Sadly I am perfectly aware of this Peter Pendent, still depressing though :)

[Octavius]

Adampy - I cannot compare with your personal experience of living there, but I am well aware of the crime levels from friends and colleagues who are South African.  It is hardly a unique situation though is it, look at Los Angeles, New York, Buenos Aires or even London which has rising violent crime.

You refer to the unqualified black people who were employed by your company.  Surely the reason that they were unqualified is that they lived in an opressive regime which refused them the right to get the education and qualifications which you appear to have.  I am sure that though they are unqualified, there salaries will be commensurate with that, but perhaps now they are able to have a job that there experience will enable them to get qualified, get a career and live a fair and reasonable existence.

[jno]

Further to Octavius's point, surely getting black people into employment, even if they have to learn on the job, is the best way of getting them off the streets; unemployment is a great cause of crime. I can't say if this will work, but it seems a reasonable experiment.

As for Mandela's wicked past... he has, as graemer pointed out, paid the penalty and is entitled as anyone else to start anew. Plenty of saints had unsaintlike lives before they saw the light - in fact, it's often the greatest sinners (and I don't believe Mandela was ever anything like that) who make the greatest saints. Mandela's ability to forgive his enemies is certainly inspiring to me.

[Cristo]

Adampy you have my sympathy. mycatis you have expressed my feelings. Octavius you and jno seem to express all that is wrong with society today. Adampy has worked hard for his RIGHT to be employed at a certain level. How can the African states expect to be taken seriously if people can so readily condone the sort of actions described by Adampy. Didnt communism try and achieve a similar work for all culture ? Equality of race is sometimes a one way street.

[Rystan]

Terrorist or statesman? There's a fine line isn't there?

In general, if you are vanquished, you were a terrorist. If you succeeded, you were a visionary, a patriot and a statesman.

The whole of the U.S. founding fathers, William Wallace, and Karl Marx were all considered terrorists by the armies and/or commanders they obliterated.

Probably the best objective measure is the reasoning behind their violent acts. Were they committed for a greater good (e.g. freedom for an oppressed people), or were they committed merely for power?

The world has rarely been changed with a feather, often with a sword.

[Octavius]

Cristo - yes I can feel sorry for Adampy too.  Adampy originally expressed what was wrong in Sth Africa, and I merely pointed out that this is the world in general.  It is unfortunate but very common that people are made redundant and replaced with cheaper under-qualified staff. 

It is also common as has been said quite often above, that future political leaders often start out as freedom fighters, rebels, insurgents or terrorists.  But the point is that Nelson Mandela spent 25 years in jail for that, or for being a member of a banned political group, and has redeemed himself by acting with humility.

I can't honestly say whether I like him or not to be honest as I don't know the man.  I see what the media present to me and whilst we may be bombarded with words like inspirational, hero and saint (and don't even mention the potential statue in Trafalgar Square) and minor celebs queueing to shake his hand and get photographed, I am able to form my own opinion.  After all, we don't believe everything we read in the papers do we?  If so, today, two thirds of 14-18 year old girls want to be just like Jordan........ Heavens above!....